Where am I in all of this? with Melissa Dishell

Melissa Dishell on the Metta Interview podcast

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[00:06:21] Melissa, it's so lovely to see you. As always, welcome to the Metta Interview.

[00:06:28] Melissa Dishell: Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to join the club. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: My friend, before we dive into the meat of the interview, before we dive into. All of the things we're gonna cover. I would like to start by asking you what brings you joy or excitement these days.

[00:06:50] Anne V Mühlethaler: And it doesn't have to be anything fancy. It could be something very small.

[00:06:56] Melissa Dishell: My husband and my dog, [00:07:00]

[00:07:02] Anne V Mühlethaler: these are both fancy and not that small.

[00:07:07] Melissa Dishell: Well, they do, so I kicked them out of the house for this, but they bring me great joy.

[00:07:17] Anne V Mühlethaler: Ah. Now I know this can be hard for some of us to do, but the exercise I like to bring in straight to the fore in this interview is can you introduce yourself? to our audience in a few words.

[00:07:34] Anne V Mühlethaler: Melissa, would you kindly introduce yourself?

[00:07:38] Melissa Dishell: Sure. I think I need to sign up for your course that helps you do this, but I'm Melissa Dishell. I am a Los Angeles native, a former professional hip hop dancer, and a founder of a random company [00:08:00] that follows my Whimsies for the last 28 years grounded in entertainment.

[00:08:08] Melissa Dishell: And I am a daughter, a sister, a wife, and a mother to a wonderful party poodle named Hank.

[00:08:19] Anne V Mühlethaler: Uh, can you explain party poodle?

[00:08:22] Melissa Dishell: So Party poodle, exactly. I like to think it's P-A-R-T-Y, but it's actually P-A-R-T-I. And apparently it's any breed can be a party. It's a certain type of marking that they have where they're like 50% white, and then they have these dots and specific markings, and so we rescued him.

[00:08:43] Melissa Dishell: Just thought he was really cute. But then other people have walked by us and been like, oh, party poodle. We're like, wait, what? So yeah, Hank is a party poodle.

[00:08:53] Anne V Mühlethaler: That's awesome. Good for Hank.

[00:08:56] Melissa Dishell: Totally. And kind of just like perfect since [00:09:00] a lot of what I do for business these days is throw events and parties.

[00:09:04] Melissa Dishell: So he is on brand. Yeah,

[00:09:06] Anne V Mühlethaler: very on brand for Uhhuh, Michelle.

[00:09:08] Melissa Dishell: Totally.

[00:09:12] Anne V Mühlethaler: So what I love to entertain in these conversations is to go beyond just what we do, even though we do touch on that and ask you questions that bring more of your, uh, various facets of your life to the fall. And so to do that, let's dive into your childhood a bit.

[00:09:37] Anne V Mühlethaler: Tell me, is there a childhood memory you can share with us, that still makes you smile to this day?

[00:09:46] Melissa Dishell: Mm. Well, my sister and I grew up riding horses. Competitively and she went on to achieve real greatness. I was [00:10:00] more just, it was fun and I competed, but it wasn't something that I was crazy, crazy serious about.

[00:10:07] Melissa Dishell: But I think the memories are really that our parents were always at our shows and very supportive. And we even had this like silly song that my dad made up that we would sing in the car on the way to the horse shows. And no, I'm not going to sing it for you, but that makes me smile.

[00:10:29] Anne V Mühlethaler: Oh, that's awesome.

[00:10:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: Could we get Walter to sing it to us?

[00:10:33] Melissa Dishell: Oh, Walter, if he was here, would be right here singing it for sure.

[00:10:37] Anne V Mühlethaler: Okay. Maybe something for the extras. The special,

[00:10:40] Melissa Dishell: there you go. The blooper reel.

[00:10:43] Anne V Mühlethaler: I don't think that I knew that you had grown up horse riding it to competitive level.

[00:10:49] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm. From when I was about. Six years old until I was 12, and then I stopped at 12, because it was interfering with my social life in [00:11:00] seventh grade.

[00:11:00] Melissa Dishell: So I opted out.

[00:11:04] Anne V Mühlethaler: It is truly beautiful. Yeah, that's a, that's, that's a, that's a great line.

[00:11:10] Melissa Dishell: Well, we had shows, you know, every weekend. Sure. And we finished school and then went out to the barn and rode at least, you know, four times a week. But I started missing everybody's bar and bat mitzvahs and, you know, I wanted to be on the dance floor.

[00:11:25] Melissa Dishell: So.

[00:11:27] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah, of course. Let's talk about Melissa on the dance floor. How early did you develop this love of dance?

[00:11:34] Melissa Dishell: I always, you know, I wasn't the kid that was in like ballet class and jazz and tap from a young age. I was horseback riding and I also had a, a brief stint, ice skating. We like to laugh that I have this framed picture of me that's still in my office at the house and it's me on the platform.

[00:11:52] Melissa Dishell: And I won fifth place.

[00:11:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Amazing.

[00:11:56] Melissa Dishell: But it's awesome. Like not even the top three, [00:12:00] but fifth and I'm there posing. So dancing was just something I love to do. And my professional career actually started because I was always the kid dancing around at all of the Bar Mitzvahs, the sweet sixteens, the weddings for our family friend group.

[00:12:17] Melissa Dishell: And it just so happened that some of our family friends, the Rosses, Mike and Rick Ross had started this record label called Delicious Vinyl Records in the eighties. Mm-hmm. And they had Tone Lo and Young mc, and this is before music videos were like a huge production in industry.

[00:12:38] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:38] Melissa Dishell: And one day they basically called my parents and they were like, Hey, can Melissa miss school today because we're shooting this video and we need kids that look like they're in high school and so can she come be one of 'em?

[00:12:48] Melissa Dishell: She loves to dance, she's always dancing around. And that started my path into music videos. My first video was Young Mc, the Principal's office. Wow.[00:13:00]

[00:13:02] Anne V Mühlethaler: That is such a great story. I can almost see you in there.

[00:13:07] Melissa Dishell: Yeah,

[00:13:08] Anne V Mühlethaler: I, I will absolutely find a link so that we can post that in the show notes.

[00:13:12] Melissa Dishell: Please do. My hair is straight today, but you'll see my, my natural curls in full form along with some bike shorts and some awesome timely fashion.

[00:13:25] Anne V Mühlethaler: Well, I wonder how this can maybe relate to the next question I was going to ask you, what do you think is an early experience that planted the seed for the work that you do today?

[00:13:38] Melissa Dishell: Definitely my time dancing because I ended up from that video and then from doing actually the AIDS danceathon at the time, which was a thing where we would go to the Shrine Auditorium in LA and you would get paid to dance for hours.

[00:13:56] Melissa Dishell: The, it was awesome. The AIDS danceathon and I [00:14:00] loved it, of course. And my boyfriend at the time was also a, a great dancer. We used to, you know, do the running man, like nobody's business. And he ran into a friend of his there and she was like, wow, you can really dance. Do you take class? And I was like, no, I just love to dance.

[00:14:17] Melissa Dishell: And she referred me to what was the first studio in Los Angeles to actually offer hip hop dance classes. Up until then, it was only jazz tap, ballet, modern. And so I found this studio. And I started dancing there. And from there my dance career started to take off. But I learned a lot from being on set, working as a dancer on videos and award shows and television shows, seeing who all of the players were and all of these people, aside from the artist who helped put it all together, whether it [00:15:00] was the manager, the publicist, the record label executive, the hairstylist, makeup choreographer, director, there were so many people responsible for helping the artist look and perform a certain way.

[00:15:15] Melissa Dishell: And I became really enamored with those people.

[00:15:19] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:20] Melissa Dishell: And that was actually the first iteration of my company when I first founded it. Mm-hmm. It was basically a boutique PR firm for everybody but the artist.

[00:15:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, but how did you make this connection to pr? I'd love to know.

[00:15:40] Melissa Dishell: I, I honestly don't even know, you know, my sister at the time worked at Allure Magazine.

[00:15:45] Melissa Dishell: She was in New York. She was in the art department. But I just, my friend who was a choreographer at the time, who I worked with all of the time, Fatima Robinson, I turned to her one day and I was like, why are you not famous? [00:16:00] Like you should be famous, right? Paula Abdul is famous for being a choreographer and Debbie Allen is famous for being a choreographer and you're doing all of this incredible work.

[00:16:10] Melissa Dishell: I mean, it was like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston and mm-hmm Will Smith. And then at the time the Backstreet Boys and I was like, you should be famous too. Like we should make you famous. And I don't even really know like how I thought that was like a thing, I guess. 'cause I'm born and raised in LA and I knew there was like an entertainment industry.

[00:16:27] Melissa Dishell: But that could be wild. Yeah. So there's that part. Yeah. Um, and so I was like, we're gonna make you famous and I'm gonna be your publicist. And I called my sister and I was like, Hey, do you have this thing called like a press kit? And she is like, yeah, I can get you one. And she sent me a press kitt for this, this new band.

[00:16:46] Melissa Dishell: No doubt. And it had like an eight by 10, you know, this is back in the day. This is pre-internet, Google, all of that. Yeah. So it had a physical headshot, like an eight by 10 glossy. [00:17:00] It had a printed bio and it had a copy of like color copy of some magazine articles where they had been featured. And I was like, oh, okay, well that's not that hard.

[00:17:11] Melissa Dishell: Like let's get a headshot of Fatima. Let's put her resume in here. She had been featured in Vibe Magazine, which was like the pinnacle of like hip hop at the time. And we made a color copy of that article at Kinko's and I made these press kits and then I went to a news stand. I know I sound like I'm in like the dark ages right now, but this is like, this is this.

[00:17:36] Melissa Dishell: Right. But this is what it was. The news stand. Totally. So I went to a newsstand. I bought like 30 magazines. And I just started reading the magazines and looking for anywhere they featured somebody who basically was not in front of the camera. So like if they featured a chef, I was like, okay, there's a chef.

[00:17:58] Melissa Dishell: They're not [00:18:00] famous, but they're doing cool stuff. Maybe the person who featured the chef would feature a choreographer. Right. I figured out that it was like, if you could tie yourself to the famous people, you don't necessarily need to be the famous person. And so I literally blind mailed like 50 press.

[00:18:20] Melissa Dishell: Kitts, didn't call anybody, just blind mailed it, and I had the luck of someone at Jane Magazine at the time, shout out to Martine Brewery, and she called me and she was like, Hey. This looks really interesting, Fatima, and we're getting into, you know, like a music issue and I would love to feature her.

[00:18:45] Melissa Dishell: Wow. Like, that was incredible. And we had a quarter page, the picture was like this big and the blurb to match right across, but it was so exciting. And [00:19:00] basically what happened from there was a producer at MTV saw the article and thought we need to be covering Fatima. And it was right when MTV turned the cameras around, which again, there are moments in your career that like, you can't plan.

[00:19:18] Melissa Dishell: It's just like in the zeitgeist and where culture is going. You have nothing to do with it. It's really just like luck, right? Mm-hmm. And this is one of those moments MTV had decided, like, we're gonna look at the people behind the scenes in the videos. And it was right at the time of them creating packages for the video music awards, which again, at the time were like so hot.

[00:19:38] Melissa Dishell: Biggest thing. Correct. Okay. And they did a package on Fatima. They came and they covered her working with the Backstreet Boys in Orlando, putting together their. Tour and video. They came to the set for Aaliyah, rest in peace. Aaliyah, are you that somebody, [00:20:00] they came to the set of Mace. We had all these videos.

[00:20:04] Melissa Dishell: Fatima was working all of the time, and they put together this awesome package that aired on the MTV news and it was right a lead up to the VMAs. And from there it started rolling. Mm-hmm. And my first client was getting a lot of PR and I was a publicist. And then basically other people who were behind the scenes in the industry, record producers, video directors, started to call me and say, oh, I've seen what you're doing with Fatima.

[00:20:33] Melissa Dishell: Like, do you think you can help me do that? And so that's how my career started out of my brother's bedroom in my parents' house.

[00:20:42] Anne V Mühlethaler: In Beverly Hills,

[00:20:44] Melissa Dishell: home Hills. But yes, close enough.

[00:20:48] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah, close enough. It's, it's remarkable. As I listen to you, I love the spark being [00:21:00] you being near really talented people and thinking more people need to know you.

[00:21:06] Melissa Dishell: Yes. And that is actually, you've just hit the DNA of my entire career. Because what happened next was basically a friend of mine was in this underground cabaret group, the Pussycat Dolls, they performed at the Viper Room every so often. They did this 10 minute show, but they wanted to do more. And I started to manage the Pussycat dolls, and my first thing was we need to flesh out a larger review.

[00:21:34] Melissa Dishell: We need a bigger venue. We need set pieces. We need more people in the cast so that the girls can be changing while other things are happening. And the guest star in that show, we had, Carmen Electra was our lead. And she was there every week. Christina Applegate was our mc and she was there every week.

[00:21:54] Anne V Mühlethaler: What?

[00:21:55] Melissa Dishell: Oh yeah, it's, it was major. If it happened now, it would've been really major, [00:22:00] but it was literally only the people who came to the Roxy got to see the show. Right. 'cause it was back in the day, and we had a different surprise guest star each week. We had Nika Costa, we had Charlize Theron, Christina Aguilera, Gwen Stefani, and then we had this girl in the glass.

[00:22:19] Melissa Dishell: Her name was Dita. She was dating this guy Marilyn Manson.

[00:22:24] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:24] Melissa Dishell: She used to perform at these like fetish and burlesque clubs and she was the best in that lane, but that lane was fairly niche and unknown.

[00:22:34] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:34] Melissa Dishell: And the show was a big success. It sold out. It got a lot of coverage. And even in some of the coverage it was clear like, yeah, the show's cute, but like when the curtain opens on de Devon teas, and it was very clear to me standing in the venue each week when the curtain opened on De Deon teas, the room paused.

[00:22:59] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:22:59] Melissa Dishell: There was [00:23:00] even like a, because she just looks so incredible and surreal, like, this takes you back just to this era that was so glamorous and beautiful.

[00:23:12] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:23:13] Melissa Dishell: And I didn't come up with the idea. I basically. The pussy cut dolls became like my true Hollywood story. The kids can Google that. And out of that, Dita approached me and said, well, I see what's happening here and I think I'm gonna be on the cover of Playboy this December, and my boyfriend says, I need a manager and maybe you can be my manager.

[00:23:42] Melissa Dishell: And that's what happened. And that was June or July of 2002.

[00:23:48] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:48] Melissa Dishell: And Dita and I worked together. Until 2015. Mm-hmm. And that was really the largest chapter in my career. And going back to the fact that I was like, [00:24:00] this woman's incredible. What she's doing is so different and artistic and the attention to detail and the heritage and how she's honoring the past, but bringing it into the current, like

[00:24:11] Anne V Mühlethaler: mm-hmm.

[00:24:12] Melissa Dishell: It was all very exciting to me and we had an incredible run.

[00:24:18] Anne V Mühlethaler: I had a very soft chills on my arms. I think out of what you shared today, this being very removed from how you and I got to know each other and, and work with Christian and Dita.

[00:24:34] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: I think I never. Positioned myself as someone in the room at the Roxy when the curtains open as you describe.

[00:24:46] Melissa Dishell: Hmm.

[00:24:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: And understanding. Oh, got the chills again.

[00:24:50] Melissa Dishell: I just got them too.

[00:24:51] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. And it's really funny because I think you described something very specific that talent managers have, that producers [00:25:00] have. It's when you, when you, when you, when you see, when you have the vision, when you see the difference, when you feel the difference.

[00:25:09] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:10] Anne V Mühlethaler: Um, when you can go beyond just what the present moment is showing you in what you just said, I suddenly realized it's not just because she was beautiful, because you've named amazing women, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:25:26] Anne V Mühlethaler: It's this image that was just other worldly. Mm-hmm. Because it somehow belonged to another time, but then it was here. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:33] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: Okay.

[00:25:35] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:37] Anne V Mühlethaler: Huh. Now, I know a lot about your professional journey, however, I would love for you to tell me if you could describe your career as a type of journey. It could be a road trip, a climb, um, I don't know.

[00:25:58] Anne V Mühlethaler: Flight to the moon. [00:26:00] I don't, what would it be?

[00:26:04] Melissa Dishell: Well, I actually said this to somebody the other day that the only constant in my career is that it's random.

[00:26:12] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:13] Melissa Dishell: Because I started my company at 23 and I'm now turning 52 this year. And I've never had a job aside from a five year stint where I went in-house for Pharrell, which we can talk about later or not, but.

[00:26:33] Melissa Dishell: The, the beauty of having my own thing was the power to say yes and no to things that came my way or to pursue things that I never would've been able to do if I worked at a company.

[00:26:48] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:49] Melissa Dishell: And going back to Dita, if I worked at a big agency and came in, was like, I wanna sign this burlesque performer.

[00:26:55] Melissa Dishell: She makes under a thousand dollars of performance. You know, she's [00:27:00] really cool. I think she's a star. Right. I don't know that that would've happened.

[00:27:05] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:05] Melissa Dishell: And even a different story that despite all of our years of friendship, I don't even know if you know, but shortly out of college, a friend of mine from Stanford called me.

[00:27:17] Melissa Dishell: And he was like, Hey, you're all up in the music business. My roommate manages this guy and he's this rapper and he's winning all of these contests. He's amazing. And maybe if you like his demo, can I send it to you? And if you like it, can you take it around and shop it to your music industry contacts?

[00:27:36] Melissa Dishell: And I was like, yeah, you know, send it to me and if I like it, you know, I will. Well, I heard this demo and called him immediately and was like, okay, what is going on? Like, how is this guy not signed? This is possibly like the best mc I've ever heard in my life. And I was a hip hop head and it was at the time when hip hop was the best, like Eric B and Rakim and like serious

[00:27:59] Melissa Dishell: [00:28:00] well, he said, well, he's white and so nobody will sign him because they don't want like vanilla ice like white wrapper.

[00:28:06] Anne V Mühlethaler: Sure.

[00:28:06] Melissa Dishell: And I was like, it doesn't matter that he is white. This guy is literally probably one of the best MCs of all its time. And I took that demo around to all of my contacts and I got a few people saying like, well, how do you know your ears are good?

[00:28:22] Melissa Dishell: You've never signed anybody. You know? But I knew, I was like, I, you know, when, you know, I knew. Yeah. And that was Eminem. Yeah. And unfortunately I wasn't tied to the deal or to the future that would be Eminem. Mm-hmm. But, um, that really gave me the courage of my conviction to be like, you know what? I do know I do have an eye and I'm also willing to do the work to help make it happen.

[00:28:51] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. Tell me about that willingness to do the work. What does that mean to you? [00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Melissa Dishell: Well, I've always been type A, I've always been an overachiever, definitely more of a perfectionist in my childhood, than I am now, thank God. ,but I was always kind of a jack of all trades, you know? I was like the head cheerleader.

[00:29:15] Melissa Dishell: I was the yearbook editor. I was a professional dancer. I was a competitive equestrian. I was. So, I always have had various things that have excited me mm-hmm. That I was willing to practice. To get good at. Mm-hmm. I understood. I think from, from being an equestrian or anybody in sports, you understand that you have to practice that.

[00:29:41] Melissa Dishell: Like the games and the matches are a very small part of what you do, and that most of what you do is practicing. And so I think that that helped translate into my work that it's like, okay, well it's not just gonna happen. You don't just get the, like, here you are on stage moment, or here you are on the magazine cover, or here [00:30:00] you are at the fashion show.

[00:30:01] Melissa Dishell: It's like, you need to practice, you need to put in the work, and then those things happen.

[00:30:07] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. It's a, it's a work ethic that was drilled into you already. Yeah.

[00:30:12] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. And I have, oh, go ahead.

[00:30:16] Anne V Mühlethaler: No, and that the, the feeling I get behind that is that consistency was key.

[00:30:23] Melissa Dishell: Definitely. But I also grew up in a family where like my father worked very hard.

[00:30:29] Melissa Dishell: He was a doctor by trade. He also was the doctor on the local news at the time. He also was a medical advisor on different television shows at the time. So he, I did

[00:30:43] Anne V Mühlethaler: not know that about your dad.

[00:30:45] Melissa Dishell: Oh, watch Mash Girl. Okay. Walter d Delle, MD gets his own credit at the end. 13 seasons. He was the medical advisor on Mash, so he was the one that would tell Alan Alda or the different actors, like, [00:31:00] okay, you're going hold the scalpel like this.

[00:31:02] Melissa Dishell: You're gonna start here and make the incision like this so that the show. Would be accurate.

[00:31:07] Melissa Dishell: Mm.

[00:31:08] Melissa Dishell: And that's also, he's a big part of my career because he was a kid from Detroit that it was like you were going to be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant or a dentist. Something very, , kind of safe. Not safe in achieving, but safe in terms of, making a living.

[00:31:27] Melissa Dishell: And he always wanted to be in entertainment. And so he found his way to dabble, but he was always my biggest cheerleader to be like, yeah, go do that. You go do that. Whereas sometimes my mom, who also incredible and has an incredible work ethic she'd be like, you know, da da DA's daughter works in insurance and she's making this such money and this, this, that, and maybe you should consider that.

[00:31:51] Melissa Dishell: And I'm like, no, thanks.

[00:31:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: That's really funny.

[00:31:56] Melissa Dishell: Yeah.

[00:31:57] Anne V Mühlethaler: That's really, really funny. [00:32:00] So. If you, if your life were a book right about now, what do you think the current chapter would be titled?

[00:32:13] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm,

[00:32:19] Anne V Mühlethaler: great question. I think it would be titled

[00:32:29] Anne V Mühlethaler: The Beginning of the Rest of the Ride.

[00:32:36] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm. Interesting. I'd read it.

[00:32:40] Melissa Dishell: Yeah, me too. I just can't write it.

[00:32:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: In that same vein, what would be a Mettaphor that captures how you are moving through the world? At the moment,

[00:32:59] Melissa Dishell: the [00:33:00] electric slide.

[00:33:03] Anne V Mühlethaler: Awesome. Go on. Describe it for me.

[00:33:06] Melissa Dishell: Well, it's like, you know, I move to this side, then I might move to this side, take it back a little bit, move forward a little bit, like just kind of seeing what's out, going with the flow, right?

[00:33:20] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:21] Melissa Dishell: But, but the hip hop version,

[00:33:25] Anne V Mühlethaler: that's pretty sweet.

[00:33:27] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. They,

[00:33:28] Anne V Mühlethaler: you as well.

[00:33:29] Melissa Dishell: Taking things as they come. You know, I think that. Age is, I think age is awesome. I think getting older is awesome and learning and all of the things that come in the different decades. But I think that change is inevitable. The only guarantee is that there will be change.

[00:33:50] Melissa Dishell: And I feel like you can either initiate the change yourself or change can happen to you. And [00:34:00] I've had a bit of both, but I feel like going with the flow and doing the electric slide is just, you know, you're rolling with the punches, things are going to happen. You can't control it all. It's very like, you know, Buddhist, right?

[00:34:15] Melissa Dishell: You can control your reaction to it. You can't control it. And so I think that I've gotten much better at that. As I've gotten older in my life and definitely in my professional life.

[00:34:27] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:28] Melissa Dishell: I also feel like events have taught me a lot about life. Production has taught me a lot about life. Mm-hmm. That no matter how much you plan, and I mean, you know, from all of the work we used to do together and the work that you used to do, I mean, you are planning down to the nth degree, right?

[00:34:48] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm. Something's going to go wrong. Like that's

[00:34:52] Anne V Mühlethaler: what I, that's why I always say to people, just

[00:34:55] Melissa Dishell: plan

[00:34:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: on something going wrong.

[00:34:56] Melissa Dishell: Right. And

[00:34:56] Anne V Mühlethaler: things will be easier.

[00:34:58] Melissa Dishell: Right. Something's going to go [00:35:00] wrong. So really your job is to problem solve and to find solutions. Mm-hmm. And also not to freak out, because if you freak out, everyone around you freaks out.

[00:35:15] Melissa Dishell: Right. I used to tell my team like, please don't get on the walking and say we have a problem. Say we have an issue. Mm-hmm. Okay. We have a problem if we can't solve it.

[00:35:27] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:28] Melissa Dishell: We have an issue and we solve it, there's no problem. Right.

[00:35:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. I feel like a lot of people would deserve to gain ex this kind of exper expertise and, and move with this worldview.

[00:35:44] Anne V Mühlethaler: That'd be very helpful in the world in general.

[00:35:47] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. Well, I've taken that and just been like, right, if you can't control everything that you spend all of these hours planning, like how do you control life? Which like you [00:36:00] can't sit and plan it. You know, what is it? If you wanna make God laugh, make plans, or something like that, you know?

[00:36:08] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. Now, what would be something that people may be surprised to learn about you? Something you haven't mentioned yet?

[00:36:28] Melissa Dishell: That I drive fast.

[00:36:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: Do you?

[00:36:31] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. My sister calls me Leadfoot.

[00:36:36] Anne V Mühlethaler: I would've never, I I just remember being your car and us being stuck in LA traffic, so that's why.

[00:36:43] Melissa Dishell: Well, yeah. Well, it's limiting, thank God. Right? Yeah, but you know, I mean, definitely my husband, my say I, I get it, I get it from my mom.

[00:36:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Really?

[00:36:55] Melissa Dishell: She, yeah.

[00:36:57] Melissa Dishell: She, we call her Marilyn Andretti. You [00:37:00] know, my mom? Yeah.

[00:37:02] Anne V Mühlethaler: So now is a good time for us to, to meet around the question that you brought today. Mm. Can you tell me about your question?

[00:37:15] Melissa Dishell: So, my question is something that came to me when I was 38, 37, and it is, where am I in all of this?

[00:37:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:32] Melissa Dishell: I was in Ibiza with Dita. Which this sounds like it's going to be an awesome story. Yes, it does. Yeah. Setting the stage. Yeah, bring us there with you, please. Exactly. Okay. So we're at Space nightclub where she would perform regularly and we're doing the tech rehearsal during the day. And you know, Dita and I, for a long time, it was like the two of us.

[00:37:59] Melissa Dishell: [00:38:00] And so I am looking at the lighting and the staging and the sound, and I'm even in the booth calling the shows with the cues with the local crews. And so this was the tech rehearsal and we're running through the performances and I keep walking from the booth to the stage, from the booth to the stage.

[00:38:19] Melissa Dishell: And the stage is not that high. There's some stairs to get up there. And so I'm taking the stairs and telling her this and telling her that I'm coming back down and going back up. And then at the end I'm standing on stage with her and they're like, okay, great. We're good. You know, we'll see you at 3:00 AM for your call time.

[00:38:36] Melissa Dishell: And uh, yay. Great. I'm like, yay, let's get outta here and go back to the hotel. And I, for some reason, even though I had taken the stairs the entire time, I decided I'm just gonna jump down off the stage. You know, different people that work on the crew had done it during the day stage. Didn't seem that tall.

[00:38:56] Anne V Mühlethaler: Other people had done it before you.

[00:38:58] Melissa Dishell: Okay. Yeah, totally. [00:39:00] And I jumped off the stage and went, ah, and that turned into a broken heel, which turned into basically three months in a wheelchair. And being forced to be an observer.

[00:39:19] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:20] Melissa Dishell: And that's when I had my kind of like Oprah aha moment of like, okay, like where's my life in this?

[00:39:30] Melissa Dishell: Hmm.

[00:39:31] Melissa Dishell: I am living a great life, don't get me wrong, but I'm living D'S life.

[00:39:39] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:40] Melissa Dishell: Right? Which is very common in talent management. And you're traveling all the time. You're going where your client is, you're doing what they're doing, you're interacting with the people they're interacting with. And like I said, it's fabulous.

[00:39:52] Melissa Dishell: Like we wouldn't have met, you know, I wouldn't have traveled the world. I am totally grateful for that. But that was a [00:40:00] moment for me that it became very clear that my life was my career.

[00:40:05] Melissa Dishell: Yeah.

[00:40:06] Melissa Dishell: And yes, I had my family and friends, but my life was defined by my career.

[00:40:12] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:13] Melissa Dishell: And I wanted to figure out what my life looked like and was outside of my career.

[00:40:23] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm.

[00:40:26] Anne V Mühlethaler: What I love about your question is that I'm thinking of someone else who came on the meta interview, even though her question was formulated differently. There's an echo of hers with yours, and I've certainly felt something akin to that. So I hope it's going to resonate, with, with our listener, listeners, but I'm thinking of [00:41:00] the person right now in the, in their earphones.

[00:41:03] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:04] Anne V Mühlethaler: What I think is really beautiful about the question, which.

[00:41:11] Anne V Mühlethaler: I'm kinda receiving right now,

[00:41:16] Anne V Mühlethaler: and I've never thought about this until this moment, is the likelihood that the people who are going to find themselves in that question are people who also get invested in things and, oh, I'm getting chills again. And that, uh, person I was thinking of, um, Jessica Faith Graham, uh, who was on the podcast not long ago, uh, she was very invested as a mother and a wife.

[00:41:44] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:45] Anne V Mühlethaler: And at some point she had her version of that question.

[00:41:48] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:41:49] Anne V Mühlethaler: Um,

[00:41:54] Anne V Mühlethaler: how aware were you of[00:42:00]

[00:42:01] Anne V Mühlethaler: how this deep investment, like the way that you as the A type. Threw yourself into one thing and one client beforehand. As you explained, you were a jack of all trades. Mm-hmm. And you had all of these different things, and sun yet just coalesced into the one thing.

[00:42:18] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:18] Anne V Mühlethaler: I'm guessing that you didn't see that shift happen.

[00:42:22] Anne V Mühlethaler: Tell me where I'm wrong.

[00:42:25] Melissa Dishell: Well, I think I managed to keep the jack of all trades within the one client, right? Mm-hmm. Because I was her publicist.

[00:42:36] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:37] Melissa Dishell: I was her manager. I was her producer, co-producer, and for her tour, I did her brand licensing and endorsement deals. I did her brand development when we went into her own brands.

[00:42:53] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. So I think that that satiated my. Personality to have [00:43:00] my hands in a bunch of different things. It just was all under the DITA umbrella. Yeah. Right. Now I look back and I'm like, I was a crazy person. Like there are people, like there are full careers in all of these areas. Like how was I the one that was like doing all of these things?

[00:43:19] Melissa Dishell: And mind you, I was collaborating with different entities, agencies, you know, um, publicists along the way. But it's like, you know, at one time we had a cosmetics and perfume deal in Germany.

[00:43:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:36] Melissa Dishell: A dress and lingerie deal in Australia. Remember we lived in Los Angeles. We were basically never home, but like.

[00:43:45] Melissa Dishell: It was literally 24 7 just given the time zones of where everything was. So yeah, I think that my kind of Gemini and type a personality jack of all trades [00:44:00] was satiated within that one person because it was so many different things and I got to learn so much. It was really incredible.

[00:44:09] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. Now, as the question emerged for you, first of all, did you hear it?

[00:44:16] Anne V Mühlethaler: did you feel it? What happened?

[00:44:20] Melissa Dishell: Well, again, I think if anybody has ever been, confined to a wheelchair, it's a really it's a significant life experience. And when this happened, this was literally the beginning of a trip that was going to be three weeks to launch things that we had been working on for years.

[00:44:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:47] Melissa Dishell: After Ibiza, we were going to France to launch her first perfume that we had been working on for two years. And so even Dita was like, you need to go home. Like you need to go home. And I was like, [00:45:00] Nope, I am not going home because I can't like run and do everything, but I can still talk, I can still tell everybody what to do.

[00:45:09] Melissa Dishell: And so I did I actually, my mom, I brought my mom out. I remember to, to be my nurse on the road. And basically she came and was the one pushing my wheelchair and helping me with everything because, you know, I couldn't walk, I couldn't be weight bearing. So physically sitting there and ha being the person who does everything for everyone, not just yourself, and then sitting there and having everybody have to do everything for you.

[00:45:46] Melissa Dishell: That was a really, really eye-opening experience. And it put me physically as an observer. And so I was watching everything go on. Okay, sit me here in [00:46:00] the chair and I can see the stage from here, or roll me here and let me see where she's going to enter and how we're going to walk. And so it, it just came to me as a part of that because I also, you know, I had a fair amount of downtime.

[00:46:14] Melissa Dishell: I couldn't be such a busy bee. And so sitting there, I just started to look around and be like, okay, like where I didn't hear it, I just thought it,

[00:46:27] Anne V Mühlethaler: mm-hmm

[00:46:28] Melissa Dishell: Where am I in this?

[00:46:29] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:31] Melissa Dishell: So, yeah.

[00:46:34] Anne V Mühlethaler: How does this question still play a part in your life today? Because that's what we explored in the pre-interview the other day.

[00:46:42] Anne V Mühlethaler: I like to make sure that anything that we bring to the podcast is a question that still feels alive, still has charge.

[00:46:50] Melissa Dishell: Oh, for

[00:46:50] Anne V Mühlethaler: sure. Tell me about that.

[00:46:52] Melissa Dishell: Okay. First time out for one second.

[00:46:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:46:57] Melissa Dishell: Alright.

[00:46:57] Anne V Mühlethaler: Oh yeah. Good idea.[00:47:00]

[00:47:05] Anne V Mühlethaler: Excuse me. Mm-hmm.

[00:47:11] Anne V Mühlethaler: Open this book too.

[00:47:24] Melissa Dishell: Okay. So what does it look like today?

[00:47:28] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. How so? I'm gonna say the same thing again.

[00:47:34] Melissa Dishell: Okay.

[00:47:35] Anne V Mühlethaler: I love to check with the guests that the question that we bring still has charge. Um, I find that otherwise we're just waxing lyrical about something conceptual. But my theory here at the core of the show is that we all will have one or two or three questions that we grapple with [00:48:00] for a part of our lives.

[00:48:01] Anne V Mühlethaler: And so I'd love to, to have you tell me how is this question still alive for you and relevant in your life?

[00:48:10] Melissa Dishell: Well, I think some of it started back then.

[00:48:15] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:15] Melissa Dishell: At 38 I decided to move to New York. I felt like I needed. Space

[00:48:21] Anne V Mühlethaler: mm-hmm.

[00:48:21] Melissa Dishell: To actually pursue my own life, to not live where my family lived, to not live where my client lived. Mm-hmm. And to kind of explore different things instead of being in the same routine, uh, that I had been in. And I also decided to prioritize my personal life.

[00:48:46] Melissa Dishell: Right. And that brings us to, last year I gave a TEDx talk about that decision to apply my career focus to my personal life [00:49:00] to, as I say, put love on my to-do list. Right. And the TEDx Talk last year. Something that I'm proud of, not because I'm like, Ooh, I'm a TEDx speaker. It was more because it was something that I wanted to accomplish personally.

[00:49:20] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:20] Melissa Dishell: That I set out my mind to accomplish that I set, I signed up for a class and took a public speaking class and did the work again to bring that to reality. Mm-hmm. And what I'm proud of with the talk, not only is that it can inspire other people, but that it was a personal goal I set and something that I achieved for me, not for a client and not for my job.

[00:49:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:48] Melissa Dishell: And a lot of it I think is currently, I look through that lens of like, oh wow, this sounds like a great opportunity.

[00:49:57] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:58] Melissa Dishell: How is it going to [00:50:00] affect my life? Mm-hmm. Not just the paycheck or the prestige or the things that come with the job, but how is it going to affect my time and my freedom?

[00:50:14] Anne V Mühlethaler: I was thinking the words before you said

[00:50:16] Melissa Dishell: them.

[00:50:16] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. Those are, those are the two most important things to me, especially as I get older. It's like, I want as much time as possible to spend with my parents who are in their eighties and thriving, but they're not going to be here forever. Right. I want as much time to spend with my husband. I didn't get married until I was 45, and so it's still, you know, new and I want to be able to do a lot of fun and exciting things with him and not just be working all of the time.

[00:50:48] Melissa Dishell: And I also want to. Be conscious of my mental health and my nervous system and all of those things where it's like I'm [00:51:00] not stressing myself to the max and I'm not burning myself out in the interest of work.

[00:51:06] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm hmm.

[00:51:10] Anne V Mühlethaler: Tell me about what time represents to you at the moment. What does time and freedom mean to Melissa?

[00:51:20] Melissa Dishell: It means that I'm in charge of my own schedule. That I know what I have to accomplish in a day or a week or on a project, and that I am autonomous in deciding when and how that gets done.

[00:51:37] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:37] Melissa Dishell: So if I. I wanna wake up at 6:00 AM and go crazy on my laptop for three hours and then check out for the rest of the day.

[00:51:44] Melissa Dishell: I can do that. If I wanna sleep until 10:00 AM and then check my first email at 11, I can do that. If I wanna catch up on the show that I'm watching over lunch with my husband, I can do that. You [00:52:00] know, time really is freedom. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's why I see a lot of my friends who have had corporate jobs or big jobs, I see them in their late forties, early fifties, being like, okay, um, this was cool, but.

[00:52:18] Melissa Dishell: I want my time, I want my freedom. And so they've left, they've become fractional, you know, consultants and things like that. And I'm kind of like, welcome. Like, I don't know how I felt like this in my twenties, but in my twenties I was like, oh yeah, no, I felt like, you know, I'll start a company and if it doesn't work, I'll get a job.

[00:52:40] Melissa Dishell: 'cause what am I supposed to do right now? I'll get a job. Right?

[00:52:43] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:52:43] Melissa Dishell: So, yeah.

[00:52:45] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm. Yeah, I guess I was wondering that because I, Hmm. I remember entering my kitchen, I don't know if it was today, [00:53:00] yesterday, but since we've last spoken, and it must've been yesterday actually when I think about it. 'cause Friday is a workday.

[00:53:07] Anne V Mühlethaler: Saturday is not supposed to be, even though I work this afternoon.

[00:53:11] Melissa Dishell: There you

[00:53:11] Anne V Mühlethaler: go. And um, and I remember. An echo of this conversation in thinking to myself, something similar. I'm so grateful that I can do this. I can't remember what I was doing, but it was an, to a certain extent,

[00:53:33] Anne V Mühlethaler: doing something that felt right for that day.

[00:53:38] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:39] Anne V Mühlethaler: So I guess what I'm hearing from you about the time is it gives you a chance to listen to yourself and do what yourself needs am. Am I correct?

[00:53:52] Melissa Dishell: Absolutely. And it also, it gives me space to do things for me, not just [00:54:00] for work.

[00:54:00] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:01] Melissa Dishell: Because it's like, and I think if I had kids, I think it would be different because kids are a constant reminder of play.

[00:54:08] Melissa Dishell: Right. Of joy, of, of, well, not constant, but but a regular reminder of like, just remind everyone that neither of us have children. Exactly. So don't at me, but I, I'm speaking specifically of this lane. Yeah. Not all the other things that come with parenting, but, you know, kids have play dates. Mm-hmm. Kids have hobbies, kids have extracurricular activities.

[00:54:35] Melissa Dishell: These are the things that basically fall by the wayside as we get older and get so deep into our careers. Right. It's like, oh, well I don't have time to do that, but those are the things that actually bring you joy.

[00:54:48] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:49] Melissa Dishell: So. A couple years ago, I just started playing tennis again. I used to play tennis when I was, you know, like a teenager and I loved it.

[00:54:57] Melissa Dishell: And I was on the tennis team and I wasn't like [00:55:00] that good, but good enough. And I was like, Hey, I'm sure I can, you know, pick it up again and see what's what. And so I took tennis lessons twice a week. So, sorry. Are you hearing that?

[00:55:13] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[00:55:14] Melissa Dishell: Okay. Yeah. I'm like, that's not supposed to be open. So I'll, and tell me

[00:55:19] Anne V Mühlethaler: about the tennis lessons.

[00:55:20] Melissa Dishell: Edit out the kids part so we don't get killed there, but you know what I mean? Well, we'll just do the kids play and that kind of stuff. Um. So a couple years ago I decided, you know what, I'm gonna start taking tennis lessons again. It was a hobby of mine when I was young. I hadn't done it in years, and I wanted to do it.

[00:55:38] Melissa Dishell: So I signed up and started taking tennis lessons twice a week.

[00:55:42] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:42] Melissa Dishell: And it was awesome. It was super fun. Not because I'm gonna start entering tournaments. There's, there's no goal. The goal is fun. The goal is to have a hobby. The goal is to nourish the part of me that is not the career part of [00:56:00] me.

[00:56:00] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:00] Melissa Dishell: Just the part of me that wants to have fun and have hobbies.

[00:56:05] Anne V Mühlethaler: Hmm. There's a, there's a part of me that's, I, I hold what you're saying about hobbies and I think that in the scope of the, uh, life and the experience you describe, I'm sure anyone can see. You've devoted yourself to your career. You're now making space for other things.

[00:56:26] Anne V Mühlethaler: But I'm particularly curious to the, to the challenge that you'd set yourself of, of this TEDx talk and of something that I mentioned to you when we, uh, spoke the other day. This was you metabolizing and, and, and also, um, offering meaning to others as to the, the journey that you'd been on. So there was something about [00:57:00] bringing your life experience and, and, and, and creating.

[00:57:04] Anne V Mühlethaler: The word that's coming to me is legacy, but, uh, and, and, and creating an offering out of it. But there's also an element of, of self-expression that feels like it sits outside of the average hobby. Um, I'd love for you to speak to. How important has this been in the scope of, of your question of, of, of what you want to create out of your life?

[00:57:37] Melissa Dishell: I think that it's been awesome in the way that it's something I've always wanted to do.

[00:57:46] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:48] Melissa Dishell: And I feel like I've had really unique experience across work and life in general.

[00:57:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:56] Melissa Dishell: And that if something that I've experienced or learned [00:58:00] can help somebody else or inspire somebody else to maybe think a different way or ask a different question, that's exciting to me.

[00:58:10] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:10] Melissa Dishell: And I feel like I know so many awesome women

[00:58:14] Melissa Dishell: mm-hmm.

[00:58:15] Melissa Dishell: Who have great careers and no personal life. Mm-hmm. And I was happy single too. Don't get me wrong. You know? And I got to a place where it was like, okay, if you're gonna add value, great. But I don't need a debit. Right? So, so I just feel like maybe hearing that can shift someone's perspective.

[00:58:39] Melissa Dishell: And I think love is the, the greatest, right?

[00:58:44] Melissa Dishell: Mm.

[00:58:44] Melissa Dishell: And so it, it can even be the talk, you know, doing one thing a day for love. It doesn't need to be to find romantic love.

[00:58:52] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:52] Melissa Dishell: It could, it could be doing one thing a day for love for yourself. Right? It could be doing one thing a day for love for [00:59:00] humanity, holding a door for somebody that you don't know, helping somebody with groceries up the stairs if they need help.

[00:59:06] Melissa Dishell: Like just gestures. And I feel like if everybody did one thing a day for love, like how, how could that be bad? It would just spread more love and kindness in the world, which I think we all know we need. Mm-hmm.

[00:59:23] Anne V Mühlethaler: How did it feel after years of representing talent to be sent a stage?

[00:59:33] Melissa Dishell: Well, it's interesting because I've never had a fear of public speaking. I was a performer, you know, I was a dancer, but I was still behind the artist, right? Mm-hmm. Um, I was also the head prefect at my high school, and so I was tasked with leading the assemblies mm-hmm. Every week. Um, so even when I took the class, it wasn't to get comfortable with public speaking, it was more to learn tricks of the trade.

[00:59:58] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm. [01:00:00]

[01:00:00] Melissa Dishell: And it felt great. I felt very natural and happy up there and, you know, if I didn't have the time constraints, I probably could have talked to everybody for hours and taken questions and turned it into a whole, you know, session and gone into everybody's dating lives. Um, and it is something that I'm interested in exploring, but I think the nice thing about it was there was no pressure attached to it.

[01:00:26] Melissa Dishell: It wasn't like, oh, and now I'm going to change my career and I'm going to be a public speaker and I need to get booked for gigs to public speak, which I would love, don't get me wrong, but I'm still just doing what I do and this is like a new lane that I'm interested in pursuing. Mm-hmm. And even doing something like this today, you know, it, it's a bit out of my comfort zone because I am used to being the one behind the person or on the side.

[01:00:59] Melissa Dishell: But I [01:01:00] feel like, again, if. Somebody listens and there's one little nugget in there for them that can help shift things, then that's awesome. Mm-hmm.

[01:01:14] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm. I also have a book that I read that really helped me shift perspectives, um

[01:01:22] Anne V Mühlethaler: mm-hmm.

[01:01:23] Melissa Dishell: From Arthur Brooks called From Strength to Strength.

[01:01:26] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yes.

[01:01:27] Melissa Dishell: Yeah.

[01:01:27] Which

[01:01:27] Anne V Mühlethaler: I've read as well.

[01:01:28] Melissa Dishell: Yeah. And it's basically, and I read it before I was middle aged, but only a few years shy, but I think that there's so much in there

[01:01:40] Anne V Mühlethaler: mm-hmm.

[01:01:41] Melissa Dishell: About kind of embracing what he calls the second curve. Right. Which is this second part of life that. If you embrace it can be even better than the first.

[01:01:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:55] Melissa Dishell: But if you fight, it will kind of continue to torment you [01:02:00] of feeling like you're less than or, um, not as accomplished as you might want. Right?

[01:02:07] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:08] Melissa Dishell: And so I found a lot of nuggets in that book.

[01:02:13] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. I remember one specific part, actually, I remember more than one specific part. I love the fact that he had a whole career in as a classical musician beforehand. Mm.

[01:02:24] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:25] Anne V Mühlethaler: Um, which I would've never expected. I think when he describes the kind of intelligence that we have in our 20 in, in our youth, in our twenties and thirties, and how it becomes a different kind of intelligence in our forties onwards, it really helped me understand why so many people in the second part of their life, and it may be even from their late thirties onwards mm-hmm.

[01:02:51] Anne V Mühlethaler: It doesn't need to be super late, start to become interested in coaching, teaching, becoming a therapist of some sorts, a [01:03:00] te a mentor. Uh, and it speaks to yes. How, or the, the, the, the, even the physiology of how our, our, our, um, brain makes meaning out of our experience changes. It's, it's really powerful. But when I think of, oh, sorry.

[01:03:23] Anne V Mühlethaler: You wanted to add something?

[01:03:25] Melissa Dishell: Can I read you something from it? Is that okay? Yeah, of

[01:03:28] Anne V Mühlethaler: course.

[01:03:28] Melissa Dishell: Okay. So I feel like there's a couple things. This one about the second curve, he says there are three forces holding you back. They are your addiction to work and success, your attachment to worldly rewards and your fear of decline.

[01:03:47] Melissa Dishell: Right? And then much later in the book where he says, as you move to a second curve, that means thinking more about what you really want now and less about what you wanted in the past. [01:04:00] Lowering your expectations around monetary compensation and worrying less about whether it will look to someone else, like a step down in prestige or not using your past experience and skills in the most obvious way.

[01:04:15] Melissa Dishell: In other words, you might just go from running a hedge fund to teaching middle school history, and that is great.

[01:04:24] Anne V Mühlethaler: That's, that feels so true as well when you read it. That's fascinating. Hmm. It's interesting, the, there's some kind of image that's coming up for me.

[01:04:39] Melissa Dishell: Mm.

[01:04:40] Anne V Mühlethaler: Of you being in the center of a stage.

[01:04:44] Anne V Mühlethaler: Let me find my,

[01:04:49] Anne V Mühlethaler: somehow what's happening in my head is that I see you on that TEDx [01:05:00] te um, stage as an answer to the question itself. Because if you think about it, where am I in this now? It's like, boom, right there.

[01:05:13] Melissa Dishell: Mm.

[01:05:14] Anne V Mühlethaler: Under a spotlight. Like very visible to yourself, not just to others. Sorry, that's just my, my quirky brain is just putting it together in this image

[01:05:24] Melissa Dishell: meant to it.

[01:05:24] Melissa Dishell: I love your quirky brain.

[01:05:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: As you, as you think about this question, what do you think you want to remember about it and how do you hope it's useful to you in the future?

[01:05:46] Melissa Dishell: Well, I feel like life is not guaranteed. Things can change in a second. You know, the other day [01:06:00] I'm at a doggy play date. And I decide to open my Instagram and I see that one of my friends from high school is posting about how her partner of 17 years passed suddenly two days ago.

[01:06:15] Melissa Dishell: Hmm.

[01:06:17] Melissa Dishell: And I think my dad always says, you know, in a New York minute, your whole life can change.

[01:06:24] Melissa Dishell: Great song too. Um, but I feel like we, we need to live and live beyond just our work and even. My rabbi always says that he never is on someone's deathbed with them and they say, I wish I would've worked more.

[01:06:45] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah, I remember that. I

[01:06:46] Melissa Dishell: heard that too. Right?

[01:06:46] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah.

[01:06:48] Melissa Dishell: It's like they wish they would've said something that they never said they wish they would've done something that they never did.

[01:06:54] Melissa Dishell: Um, they wish they would've spent more time with certain people. And so [01:07:00] I feel like that is, to me, it's more like if people take anything out of this, it's like, what are you putting to the side that you really want to do because you need to do it now. It's not necessarily right now today, but you need to make it a priority to do it.

[01:07:24] Melissa Dishell: And it might mean saying no to a job or saying no to some sort of commitment that you have, and that will be okay because you need to do that for yourself so that you don't have that regret. Yeah. And it doesnt make you selfish.

[01:07:43] Anne V Mühlethaler: Yeah. It could be saying no to a relationship. Exactly. Not Nest, just a partner.

[01:07:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: It could be other relationships in your life. Yes. Yeah. Suddenly that also feels so closely related to that question. That question is a way to make sure that by the end [01:08:00] you are not finding yourself saying, I wish I had blah, blah, blah, blah. Exactly, exactly. It's it's a way to address this in the present moment.

[01:08:10] Melissa Dishell: Exactly.

[01:08:12] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm. I. Feel very close to your question. I love that we got to explore it together. Is there anything else that you, you'd like to add, um, before we we come to close the conversation?

[01:08:33] Melissa Dishell: I think it goes back to the, the question and what we're talking about now. Like, your friendships are so important, right? Sitting here with you makes me think of how important friendships are. Mm-hmm. And I've told you privately as well, but it's like you've been there for me in such big ways when I've gone through some of the lowest lows, uh, in my career and life.

[01:08:55] Melissa Dishell: And you have to take the time [01:09:00] to continue to nurture those relationships because that's what we're here for. Tough. You're making me cry. Oh,

[01:09:08] Melissa Dishell: you're making me cry too.

[01:09:09] Melissa Dishell: But it's true.

[01:09:10] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm,

[01:09:11] Melissa Dishell: yes. Right. And again, a kind of random, back to me being random, we never would've met except through our work. Yeah. So there's also great blessings that come from work, and I'm not here to say, oh, don't work.

[01:09:30] Melissa Dishell: And I also don't have the financial, um, luxury to not work. It's just, for me, work life balance gets thrown around a lot, and to me, that's not a reality. It's like you're, you're choosing moments to focus on your life and you're choosing moments to focus on your work, but you need to be intentional that you are choosing moments for both.

[01:09:55] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[01:09:56] Melissa Dishell: Right.

[01:09:58] Anne V Mühlethaler: I, I think, again, [01:10:00] what I love about using these questions as a new lens that anyone can borrow is that we don't have to be prescriptive. You just offered us your story and your question. Someone can take the question and see how it applies to their lives without it being anything but a new lens.

[01:10:19] Anne V Mühlethaler: It's funny because I remember, I think the first time we hung out together and it wasn't on the roof terrace of the apartment block where I lived in Covent Garden.

[01:10:33] Melissa Dishell: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:34] Anne V Mühlethaler: And it was after a, a performance of Ditas and I can remember it almost as if it was yesterday. I kinda have like that, the postcard in my mind.

[01:10:44] Anne V Mühlethaler: How funny is that? Mm-hmm. Big moments.

[01:10:47] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:49] Anne V Mühlethaler: Well, Melissa, thank you so much for giving me your time, your story, your questions, and allowing me to, ask you all of those that make up this meta interview. [01:11:00] Before we, before we close, I would love to ask you. What surprised you, if anything, in our discussion?

[01:11:22] Melissa Dishell: I don't know. I mean, I feel like how long do we have?

[01:11:30] Anne V Mühlethaler: You're funny,

[01:11:30] Melissa Dishell: be too many things, you know? It did, I'll tell you, it doesn't surprise me because we are friends.

[01:11:39] Anne V Mühlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[01:11:40] Melissa Dishell: But I think how comfortable I feel sharing all the different parts of my story with you, because I'm a very private person.

[01:11:50] Melissa Dishell: That's part of, like, I don't post my, my food on Instagram. I don't post my outfits, my makeup, my, you know, it's, I barely, I never even [01:12:00] posted my husband until. The Ted Talk and was like, okay, well I guess I should have this person on my Instagram in case somebody's curious. Um, but I think that it's a gift that you have to, you make people feel very comfortable and um, it was a pleasure to be here with you.

[01:12:19] Anne V Mühlethaler: Thank you. Well, let me now share some gratitude, um, for the time that we spent together today and also the, the time spent, in the pre-interview.

[01:12:29] Anne V Mühlethaler: I know that this is not something that you do often, and I am, I'm in awe of, of what you shared, the path that your life has taken, and I'm incredibly happy and grateful that you're able to share, this, this journey and, and the wisdom that emerged through it with other people through this medium. So thank you so much, Melissa.

[01:12:54] Anne V Mühlethaler: If Thank you, anybody wants to get in touch with you, follow you, watch the TEDx [01:13:00] talk where can they find out more about you?

[01:13:02] Melissa Dishell: Just my website, Melissa Dishell. That's the best place.

[01:13:08] Anne V Mühlethaler: Awesome. Well, on that, I'm going to let you go. Give Hank party poodle, some kisses. Have a beautiful day and I hope I'll get to see or speak to you really soon.

[01:13:21] Melissa Dishell: You will, and thank you so much for all you do.

[01:13:25] Anne V Mühlethaler: Thanks. Take

[01:13:27] care.

[01:13:27] Melissa Dishell: Happy.

[01:13:27] Anne V Mühlethaler: Bye.

[01:13:28]