How do I stop hiding my creative and spiritual voice? with Lucia Dami

[00:00:00] Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Anne and this is the Metta Interview, intimate Conversations with Brilliant Humans, contributors to Le Trente, named for Metta the Buddhist practice, also known as Loving Kindness. This show, aims to bring unconditional friendliness to how we meet each other.

[00:00:24] Speaker 2: And rather than traditional interviews that showcase expertise, in each episode, we gather around a question that feels alive for my guest right now, the goal is to explore not just what they know, but who they are and what they're grappling with. Because at the core of this show is this deep belief that I have that each of us carry one or several questions

[00:00:51] Speaker 2: throughout our lives, questions that our work, our relationships, are either an attempt to answer or perhaps questions that act as a [00:01:00] lens to help us make choices and advance in life.

[00:01:05] Speaker 2: Today I'm delighted to be sharing this Metta conversation with Lucia dmi, an artist, tarot and Oracle card reader, someone whose work. I find it incredibly exciting. Lucia explores the healing and transformative powers of our inner landscape, particularly as they relate to the divine feminine.

[00:01:27] Speaker 2: She's infused with a deep interest, as you'll hear with the mystical, the unseen, her art and divination practices serve as windows, or you could see portals into the symbolic, the intuitive, or the unconscious realms.

[00:01:48] Speaker 2: Her second deck, the Light in the Dark Oracle, a 44 card deck and guidebook, which she describes as a collection of visual prayers is coming out in a couple of days. [00:02:00] Now the alive question, the one that Lucia brought to our recording is one that I suspect many of us are also sitting with.

[00:02:11] Speaker 2: She asks, how do I stop hiding my creative and spiritual voice? Hmm. So with that, I leave you to discover my wonderful conversation with Lucia. Happy listening.

[00:02:35] Lucia, it's so lovely to see you again. Welcome at this time to the Metta Interview.

[00:02:42] Lucia Dami: Thank you, Anne. It's always a pleasure to speak with you.

[00:02:46] Anne V Muhlethaler: So how am I finding you today?

[00:02:50] Lucia Dami: I'm good, thank you. I'm good. The sun is out in London, which always makes me feel like I have so much more energy and I have a lot of things that I've been planning and [00:03:00] creating, so I feel very much aligned with this spring season.

[00:03:04] Anne V Muhlethaler: Oh, that's lovely to hear. Yeah. I also feel like the seeing the nature in renewal does something for my physical body. It does something to my mind, to my energy. It's really quite remarkable when we see, especially all of the trees in bloom currently around, obviously this also, for some people, the slightly less exciting time of hay fever season, but

[00:03:32] Lucia Dami: that's true.

[00:03:33] Lucia Dami: That's true. But I agree with you seeing the trees beginning to bloom the buds, hearing the buds saying, I don't know. It really, um, it, I think it definitely awakened something in so many people. You know, it's, it's, it's part of living in, in alignment with nature as well. It's how we're supposed to be at this time of year.

[00:03:50] Lucia Dami: We're supposed to be awakening coming out of our hibernation.

[00:03:55] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yes, absolutely. Now, as you may [00:04:00] remember, the way that I like to start the meta interview is by asking you to first name something that is making you, joyful or excited at the moment. It may be that we just named something already, but is there something else that is proving to energize you or, or surprise you at present?

[00:04:27] Lucia Dami: it's kind of an internal feeling. I, I think the last few years have felt quite, I, I guess challenging in a way because I, I felt like I've been pushing against my creativity a bit, like wanting to be in a flow state and I just haven't been able to get there. And I don't know what shifted, but I guess in the last couple months something did, and I feel.

[00:04:57] Lucia Dami: There's a lot coming through, [00:05:00] which is a really beautiful feeling. And that is, that has been, yeah, it has been bringing me some excitement. 'cause I'm not quite sure where it will take me, but I am looking forward to seeing what happens.

[00:05:14] Anne V Muhlethaler: Hmm. That sounds beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing.

[00:05:19] Lucia Dami: Thank you.

[00:05:20] Anne V Muhlethaler: Now can I ask you, would you please introduce yourself to our audience in whatever words that may feel right today?

[00:05:31] Lucia Dami: Yes, of course. My, my name is Lucia Dami and I am an artist and a tarot reader. My work focuses mainly on empowering the divine feminine and by divine feminine, what I'm really talking about is the internal world, the unseen realms and the realm of, of emotion and, and feeling and spirit.

[00:05:54] Lucia Dami: Mm. And that's my big passion. And so that has come through in my art and also in [00:06:00] my tarot practice. I've also just created an Oracle deck. So I guess the theme of divination is also something that's quite big in my work. Yeah, that's, that's me in a nutshell, I guess.

[00:06:11] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm. I feel like I want to ask you what divination means to you for anyone listening who may not be familiar with it.

[00:06:23] Lucia Dami: Mm, that's a great question. Divination for me means communicating with spirit. And there is so much within the realm of spirit that you can communicate with. I prefer to communicate with an essence that has my highest, you know, has my highest good in, in its heart and its intention. But divination is, is the act of communicating with the unseen.

[00:06:50] Lucia Dami: And so there are many, many tools across cultures that are used to achieve that. A lot of the time there [00:07:00] is some focus on bringing the future into light, so understanding what might happen, how things might unfold. I don't think , that should be, or is the main goal for divination.

[00:07:12] Lucia Dami: I think in its highest potential, what divination can give us is clarity and, it kind of bird's eye view over where we've come from, where we are and where we might go. Because a lot of the time from where we're standing, we can only really see a very limited view of what the future looks like. And often it's.

[00:07:33] Lucia Dami: Clouded in projections of our fears and our hopes and of what we know and of what we fear in the unknown, rather than the potential that actually exists there. And so divination can kind of help us to unravel all of that and to see, you know, where we could go that we might not even be able to imagine, you know?

[00:07:53] Lucia Dami: That's, that's the way that I like to use divination at least.

[00:07:56] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. I, [00:08:00] it's interesting you said that, and I, I felt the need to use that hand gesture as if using divination you get projected upward up and back, to gain perspective. It's interesting to have this physical response to the images that you were bringing to me, and it's making me want to use divination.

[00:08:25] Anne V Muhlethaler: I can see, I can see how what you're describing, the, especially in a time of contraction in our life when we are stressed or fearful or find anxiety, which I think is probably a lot of us given how things are going in the world at the moment.

[00:08:41] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:43] Anne V Muhlethaler: I like this idea of being able to, to unveil potentiality and I guess a sense of connection to self, but in a different felt sense does, if that makes sense.

[00:08:58] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yes.

[00:08:59] Lucia Dami: [00:09:00] Yeah, exactly. And, and for people who don't necessarily relate to the language of, you know, connecting to spirit or something divine or the spiritual realm, divination is a great tool to connect to your subconscious and. You might see this a kind of parallel between the unseen realm spiritually and also the unseen realm psychologically.

[00:09:19] Lucia Dami: So, you know, our subconscious mind, because our subconscious holds so much information about us and, and why we are the way we are and why we've done what we've done and why we choose to go where we choose to go. And so when we tap into that power, we can really unlock a lot of potential and so much potential.

[00:09:38] Lucia Dami: And, um, you know, divination tools like Tarot or Oracle cards, they are, they speak in the language of symbols, which is the language of the subconscious. And so when we pull these cards, we're immediately engaging with a different aspect of ourselves and a different voice. Mm-hmm. And so I like what you said about, you know, it's communication with self because it's true.

[00:09:55] Lucia Dami: It's not just communication with spirit, it's, it's definitely [00:10:00] communication with a voice outside of, um, the voices that we engage with all the time in our heads, you know?

[00:10:06] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I call that the inner roommate.

[00:10:10] Lucia Dami: I love that. Mm.

[00:10:14] Anne V Muhlethaler: Now I love to ask several questions to help, um, showcase different aspects of, of who you are. And I'd love to ask you to go back in time and particularly ask you about a childhood memory that still makes you smile. So, what is a memory that you can tell us about that still brings a smile to your face?

[00:10:43] Lucia Dami: Hmm.

[00:10:48] Lucia Dami: I, I can't think of a specific one right now, but all the memories that come to mind are playing in the garden, you know, during spring and summer and I guess one. One [00:11:00] memory I have is when I was about between the ages of maybe five and seven, I would always see two little white butterflies flying together.

[00:11:12] Lucia Dami: And of course they were never the same two, but I really, really believed that they were the same two and that they were my friends. And throughout the years, whenever I would see the two little white butterflies, I'd be like, oh my gosh. You know, they're following me like some kind of spirit animal. Yeah.

[00:11:29] Anne V Muhlethaler: Oh, that's gorgeous. I totally feel that. I think one of my favorite times seeing the twirling white butterflies was actually at a street corner around the corner from where I used to live in, in New York, in the West Village. And I think in an urban, in a very urban environment like Manhattan, it felt like such a surprise.

[00:11:52] Anne V Muhlethaler: And yeah, it felt like a connection to me and it was like, oh, I'm following you, and you're going, oh, you're going to where I'm having brunch.

[00:11:59] Lucia Dami: Amazing. I [00:12:00] love that. Yeah.

[00:12:01] Anne V Muhlethaler: That's so funny. Now, what do you think is an early experience that first planted the seed for the work that you do currently?

[00:12:12] Lucia Dami: Well, I've always been drawing ever since I was a really young age, I was drawing and I had I was very close to my grandparents on both sides of my family, and they were artists.

[00:12:24] Lucia Dami: And they really encouraged me to draw and to paint. So I was always engaging in my creativity. And I was also always engaging in, in the realm of my imagination deeply. And at school, um, you know, I was really, really shy, but I, I did have friends, but I was shy. So when we would be playing together in the playground, if something happened that made me feel at all uncomfortable, I would literally run away.

[00:12:48] Lucia Dami: I would, I would run away and just pretend I was in my own world and. I enjoyed, I would play on my own. I would be a horse, be an animal, be this, be that, and [00:13:00] I would play on my own. So I had a very like rich imaginative world that I was actively engaging in as well as you know, drawing and things. I, I think the only times I remember being told off in my classroom was because I was daydreaming and I was like, in my own world.

[00:13:20] Lucia Dami: And then my teacher would be like, where are you? Like, what are you doing? Because I'd be like looking, just gazing off into the distance or, God knows what doing hand gestures with my hands because I was somewhere else. And, um so I've always had that essence, of being in touch with that side of me, the imaginative, creative side.

[00:13:42] Lucia Dami: But when it comes to the divine feminine work that didn't come until much later when I was maybe. 19. In fact, in our other conversation, our other podcast episode, I did speak about my experience with having an ovarian cyst and

[00:13:57] Anne V Muhlethaler: mm-hmm.

[00:13:58] Lucia Dami: Having to get that surgically [00:14:00] removed and the kind of, that was very much an, an initiation into mm-hmm.

[00:14:05] Lucia Dami: The divine feminine work that I'm doing now. And even at that time I wouldn't have called it divine feminine work. 'cause I don't think that term was really, had reached me yet. I just understood it as healing myself, and kind of landing into, into being a woman and what it meant.

[00:14:22] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. That's, it's great that you bridged that because I was going to ask you to tell me how you had first become interested in your current field, but I guess your current field is a, is an intersection of being an artist, working with divination and working with the divine feminine.

[00:14:47] Anne V Muhlethaler: So perhaps you can tell me at, at which moment in your life did you feel these three interests or passions or themes sort of get together? Where the spark, let's [00:15:00] say suddenly made sense for you?

[00:15:05] Lucia Dami: I think it was around the time that I just mentioned when I mm-hmm. Had, had to have this surgery and it was connecting with my body, you know, living in a female body and what that meant and what that also meant on the one hand, physically, but also spiritually.

[00:15:22] Lucia Dami: And I was already very much in my spiritual, on my spiritual journey, and that was part of the issue because I hadn't yet balanced it out with, you know, being in a, in my physical self. I think around then I began to kind of bridge the gap between the. This space where I was using tarot and engaging with the very spiritual side of me.

[00:15:43] Lucia Dami: And then using that, the gifts that, that I was receiving from that space and channeling them into like, okay, well how do I use this to kind of heal and really be in myself and figure out what it means to, to be present in my body? And art was just always, [00:16:00] I guess, was always the, the, the alchemy for the, for that process.

[00:16:06] Lucia Dami: The thing that, that connected everything because I was using art to help me, I guess, embody my power and to help me see myself in my power. I was doing a lot of self portraits. It also was the thing that has always, it's always been the practice that has helped me make sense of my inner world by putting it on paper and making marks of it.

[00:16:29] Lucia Dami: In the physical world. And tarot. Tarot was that space as well, where I could bridge bridge those two spaces. And I think that's why I always knew I had to make my own tarot deck. 'cause I had to bring that into that space too, which I eventually did.

[00:16:45] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm, yeah. You just, it's interesting how you, you are telling me your story reminded me that there's only one kind of drawing that I did [00:17:00] consistently since I was a child.

[00:17:01] Anne V Muhlethaler: It's always drawing eyes.

[00:17:03] Lucia Dami: Oh yeah.

[00:17:04] Anne V Muhlethaler: And the symbolism of that just feels very strong, right about now. Interesting.

[00:17:10] Lucia Dami: Yeah. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. That's so interesting. So you would always draw the same thing the eye.

[00:17:16] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. It's true. It was mainly one eye. Isn't it funny? Wow. Yeah.

[00:17:21] Lucia Dami: That is

[00:17:21] Anne V Muhlethaler: the

[00:17:22] Lucia Dami: third eye. There it is.

[00:17:24] Anne V Muhlethaler: Absolutely. Now, if you could describe your professional journey as a kind of journey. So it could be, I don't know, a climb, a descent.

[00:17:36] Anne V Muhlethaler: It could be a sailing trip road trip, a train journey. What would you, what would you describe it as?

[00:17:44] Lucia Dami: Oh my goodness. It would have to be something water based. A water based journey. 100%. Maybe like a swim.

[00:17:56] Anne V Muhlethaler: Oh

[00:17:57] Lucia Dami: yeah. Yeah. I don't know, [00:18:00] like a swim where you could go beneath the surface and above. You could go deep and come back for air.

[00:18:08] Lucia Dami: Yeah. I don't know where, where we're swimming to, but we're in the water.

[00:18:15] Anne V Muhlethaler: It sounds beautiful. Now, if you were to name one particular struggle or challenge, what do you think has been the most, the one that most profoundly shaped your professional path until now? I,

[00:18:36] Lucia Dami: I think it's a challenge that I'm still working through. You know, some of the best challenges in life are the ones that we keep returning to. And I, it really goes back to what I've already sort of communicated, which is really living, living presently, living in the body, living here, and. Not being afraid to be seen.

[00:18:58] Lucia Dami: Not being afraid to be [00:19:00] heard. Because on a conscious level, like day to day, it's not like I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm so afraid. You know? But subconsciously there's, there is a huge wound I think where, wherever that comes from, whether it's my childhood or

[00:19:18] Lucia Dami: ancestral collective, it's something that has come up in different ways, different kinds of obstacles subconsciously to kind of stop me from really putting myself out there in the ways that I dream of.

[00:19:33] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. Because I've always had big ambitions and big dreams. And then on the flip side, I'm, I've come up against this part of me that's like, yeah, afraid. I think of what will happen if I really achieve those things. Especially because the, the, the dreams and the goals and the ambitions they have relate.

[00:19:52] Lucia Dami: So deeply to, to my inner world and to my voice as an artist and, and as a spiritual person. So that has been [00:20:00] a big challenge for me.

[00:20:03] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. I personally resonate with you a lot on that, and I wonder how many people listening, perhaps particularly women, will feel, an echo of, of this in themselves about showing the vulnerable, unique, most honest part of who you are and, and the challenge and exposing ourself that way as much as also the sense of the guess that this is probably what we all wish somehow.

[00:20:39] Lucia Dami: Yes. Yeah. To be,

[00:20:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: be seen for who we are.

[00:20:43] Lucia Dami: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a really interesting journey because I, I. I have met so many women who are so deeply sensitive, who are, would consider themselves artists or creative people in some way, and who, who love being in that [00:21:00] space on their own. Where they're creating, where they're really, where they really get to see and feel their own true expansive power, but, and they want to put that in front of the world.

[00:21:13] Lucia Dami: But then there are so many stories around what that means, you know? Mm-hmm. Some, some of those stories even include like, well, you know, who am I to put myself in the limelight? Who am I to, to shine? You know, who do I think I am to, to want to be seen and heard by many people.

[00:21:29] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:30] Lucia Dami: And those voices often are just like protective shields over the real thing that is, you know, I'll be, I'll be in danger if I Yeah.

[00:21:41] Lucia Dami: Do that. But it, it is absolutely something very common.

[00:21:46] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. I wonder if it's the most universal hero's journey or heroine's journey.

[00:21:53] Lucia Dami: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, speaking of the heroine's journey, right? That's the descent, that's the [00:22:00] descent to the underworld. And you know, all the things that you have to let go of in that process including the narratives that are protecting you.

[00:22:14] Anne V Muhlethaler: Interesting. Yeah. That sort of weaves itself into the, it speaks to the, the opportunity or the how to work with the challenge, I guess.

[00:22:25] Lucia Dami: Yeah, yeah. Which is something that I think I have, what's the word I have, I guess, found along my past recently that the power of mythology and the power of, you know.

[00:22:39] Lucia Dami: The, the goddess myths. Mm-hmm. Especially the myth of inana, which is one of the first, or the, the original goddess myth, the descent of Inana into the underworld. And how these stories and these symbols, can help us to make sense of what we're going through in life. And I always, I mean, I, I've come across [00:23:00] my own pattern of of feeling defeated so, so frequently throughout my life where I'll, I'll have all this momentum buildup and I'll be like, yes, you know, I'm ready.

[00:23:12] Lucia Dami: I, I'm, I'm on the path to my dreams. And then something will happen, like emotionally, physically, mentally, something will happen to kind of put me into this space of shutdown. And I've never been able to control it. But recently looking at it from the perspective of this, of mythology and through the lens of this dissent.

[00:23:35] Lucia Dami: Myth and, and cyclical living and, and the cyclical nature of the female, I've been able to bring more consciousness to that space. And instead of fearing like, oh, when is that gonna happen? When is that darkness going to kind of bring me down again? I've come to, to look at it as something that I expect will happen and how can I be more prepared and bring [00:24:00] my consciousness into that space rather than just, you know, surrender completely to it, you know?

[00:24:04] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. And it's been interesting. I think it's partly why I've been feeling so much more creative recently. Mm-hmm. Because that fear hasn't been taking any of my energy.

[00:24:16] Anne V Muhlethaler: Hmm. Oh, I'm so glad you said that because I wanted to ask you for some reason about your energy, about how you're working with that challenge.

[00:24:24] Anne V Muhlethaler: How do you feel your inner, I don't know why I'm asking you this, but I kind of, I think I know why. I, I don't know if that's true for you, but do you ever feel like perhaps the energy you have is very brilliant, but there's a worry about it overtaking

[00:24:44] Lucia Dami: Hmm, yeah. Umhmm

[00:24:53] Lucia Dami: in a way, I suppose. Yes. I have a lot of, if, if I could describe [00:25:00] the energy that I'm speaking of, it's like fire and I, at the same time am so. Comfortable in the watery space. Which is funny because when you asked me about interesting the journey, I'm like, oh, it's definitely in water. You know? Mm-hmm.

[00:25:14] Lucia Dami: Because I, I'm my comfort zone and the space where I, I feel more in connection with my creativity is in that space of just openness, of flow, um, surrender, and just like, let's see where life takes us. But then I also have a lot of fire that I haven't, I don't think, learned to feel safe with. And that's where the, the feeling safe comes in because fire and that creative, passionate, ambitious energy needs a container.

[00:25:43] Lucia Dami: And also when you learn to contain it, you inevitably do become more visible. You become, you take up more space. You have you, you take more action on the things that you want. You're more direct. And, but if you don't contain it, then it, it just kind of burns you [00:26:00] out. Mm-hmm. And I think that's kind of what I've done in the past is I'll feel this fire build and then I, I won't sleep.

[00:26:05] Lucia Dami: I won't eat. Mm-hmm. I will just be in creative mode. I'll be, you know, up all night drawing, creating projects. Mm-hmm. Writing, you know, and and then I'll crash because obviously it's not sustainable because I do have a body and I need to take care of it, and I need to find balance. So yeah. So I'm learning to, to balance those two energies I think, which I guess you could also think of as like the yin and the yang.

[00:26:32]

[00:26:32] Anne V Muhlethaler: Beautiful. I don't know if this feels right for you, but I notice as well personally that possibly my most embodied. When I feel like I'm really in my senses, when I feel like I'm absolutely present and I can feel everything is often when I am in water, when I'm having a swim, where I'm having a shower or a bath.

[00:26:57] Anne V Muhlethaler: It, there's something very interesting about how water can, [00:27:00] and I don't know if this works for everyone. So for our listeners, don't hesitate to drop me a line and let me know what it's like for you. What is your most embodied state? But yeah, for me, I know that particularly, you know, it, Lake Geneva, if I'm having a swim and there's nature around and it's, there's, it's a very sensorial experience and that really brings me right where I am.

[00:27:22] Lucia Dami: Oh, beautiful. Yes. That's, that's such a great question that you're asking people to connect with because I think it's so important to know. What it is for you. Right. I, I love being in water. I living in Central London, I don't really have access to that as easily as I did when I lived in Geneva.

[00:27:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: But, you know, maybe the Thames is going to get the treatment that the sun got in Paris and maybe there'll be a beach and the center of London sometime soon.

[00:27:50] Lucia Dami: Well,

[00:27:50] Anne V Muhlethaler: I'm finding it hard to imagine, but if the French did it,

[00:27:54] Lucia Dami: why, why can't we? Yeah.[00:28:00]

[00:28:02] Anne V Muhlethaler: If your life were a book right now, what would the current chapter be titled?

[00:28:15] Lucia Dami: Oh my goodness. I dunno. I'm, I want to say that it would be titled something like the beginning because I feel like I'm at the beginning of something. Yeah, I, I feel an awakening. I definitely do feel an awakening. I think an aspect of me that has been hiding for a long time is no longer, no longer wants to hide.

[00:28:44] Lucia Dami: And I, you know, I guess on a tangible level, I am releasing my Oracle deck at this point in time. It's, it's my newest release. I've been working on it for a while. Mm-hmm. It feels like a big moment. And I'm, I'm [00:29:00] also releasing well, I have an art exhibition planned in June and I've opened my community space where I'll be, it's the first time that I have an online community space where I get to connect with my community who are interested in the things that I'm sharing on a much deeper level.

[00:29:15] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. And just these three things alone feel like things that I've been wanting to do over the last couple of years, and I just haven't been able to. To just do it. And it's funny to me that they all feel like they're happening at the same time. I mean, they are, they're all happening in the first six months of 2026.

[00:29:32] Lucia Dami: And and I don't know why the timing is like this, but it is, and, and I feel like because of these things I have been putting myself in more visible spaces where I, I can be seen and heard in a way that I haven't really allowed myself to be before. Yeah. And, and the, you know, we, we are speaking a lot about being seen and being heard, but really the, [00:30:00] the desire behind those forces is the desire for connection.

[00:30:06] Lucia Dami: And I think so many people are craving that at the moment. And I think maybe that's also part of the timing of me shifting into this space in my own journey as well.

[00:30:19] Anne V Muhlethaler: Hmm. Yes. Thank you for making that call back to what the, what the desire, what the, the, the spark is underneath it all.

[00:30:31] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:32] Anne V Muhlethaler: Now, before we go towards your question, your big alive question, I'd love to ask you, what's something people might be surprised to learn about you?

[00:30:46] Lucia Dami: Hmm.

[00:30:47] Anne V Muhlethaler: Something that maybe they can't guess upon just meeting you.

[00:30:53] Lucia Dami: Well, I, I get this a lot. When I meet people for the first time, when I say that I'm an [00:31:00] introvert, they are surprised by it. Which is, I I, it's funny because I guess it's part of this theme that we're talking about, but I, I spend so much time alone and I can go days without seeing a person. I mean, I live with my boyfriend, so it makes it easier 'cause I feel like I have someone that I'm seeing and talking to.

[00:31:18] Lucia Dami: But I, I can go days without that kind of engagement because I, I distract myself with my, my other passions and, and I'm connecting and engaging with my art and with my, my other practices. So yeah, I'm, I'm super introverted and like social gatherings and, and big group things can often give me a lot of anxiety.

[00:31:45] Lucia Dami: But in those situations, I guess I mask it really well. Or maybe I am just like. I don't know. Maybe I am more expressive. I am a very expressive person, but it's just funny because I, I, I really connect and relate to my [00:32:00] identity as an introvert, but when I meet people and I say that, they're like, what? I would never have guessed that.

[00:32:07] Anne V Muhlethaler: That's really funny. I so hear you. I could also spend days without seeing people.

[00:32:14] Lucia Dami: Right?

[00:32:15] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:32:19] Anne V Muhlethaler: Now let's, let's move it to talk about your big alive question. And I think in your case we'll feel the relationship that it has, not just with your life, but with your work. So the question that you landed on and we were hesitating until just before the recording between two of them, the one that we, or that you chose, because it holds more energy at the moment.

[00:32:47] Anne V Muhlethaler: It is, how do I stop hiding my creative and spiritual voice?

[00:32:53] Lucia Dami: Yes.

[00:32:54] Anne V Muhlethaler: Can you tell me more about what this question speaks to for you? [00:33:00]

[00:33:00] Lucia Dami: Mm. I ever since I was a, a young child, I've always felt this really strong desire to express myself. And at the same time, ever since the beginning of my life, I've had a strong fear of being seen and heard and spoken to and, and looked at and like having attention on me when I was a kid.

[00:33:29] Lucia Dami: It was super, super strong. But equally, I, I remember from a very young age feeling like a really big desire to, to express and to, you know. To make art and to, and to, and to dance and to sing. But I, yeah, I've just always had that polarity, that push and pull of wanting to be seen or, or just wanting to express [00:34:00] myself and then, hiding from the world.

[00:34:05] Lucia Dami: And now I, you know, I guess I, I feel grateful that somehow, despite that I still manage to make art my full-time job. And I, I am seen and I am heard, and I, I do have a platform and, and an audience that I'm so grateful for, but I've carried that that contrast with me up until now. And we've spoken a little bit about how it's quite a collective wound for the, for women in general.

[00:34:36] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. And it's something that has also informed. What I teach and, and how I help to empower other women because I've journeyed with that and used it as fuel, throughout my, my own life and, and along the way found different tools and different keys that can help to unlock more of that [00:35:00] potential.

[00:35:07] Anne V Muhlethaler: Let me think.

[00:35:12] Anne V Muhlethaler: I remember us in our pre recording conversation, talking about the meaning of a spiritual voice for women, for your ancestry, your, the women in your lineage, and the perhaps broad in a broader sense. Most women's lineages. When you think about spiritual voice, what does that mean to you?

[00:35:48] Lucia Dami: The spiritual voice is the voice that I, holds truth despite it not having [00:36:00] logical reason to it.

[00:36:03] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:03] Lucia Dami: So it's the knowing that you have that you can't explain. It's also your ability to communicate with the unseen. So many women have, you know, extra sensory gifts will have had women in their lineage who had those gifts who were also punished for that

[00:36:28] Anne V Muhlethaler: called

[00:36:28] Lucia Dami: witches.

[00:36:29] Lucia Dami: Who were feared for their connection with the spirit realm. Mm-hmm. Even, I mean, as things as simple as just being a herbalist, you know, being in connection with the voices of nature doesn't even have to be that you're communicating with the, with the ghosts or anything. But women have been, yeah, have been seen as a threat.

[00:36:49] Lucia Dami: Women who are in connection with their spiritual voice have been seen as a threat throughout history. And yeah, I guess if I could define the spiritual voice, it's, it's the voice that lives outside of [00:37:00] reason and logic and evidence and structure. It's something that comes from within, that exists in nature, that exists in dreams, that exists in silence and stillness and, yeah.

[00:37:12] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:16] Anne V Muhlethaler: Do you feel it's the same as the creative voice? Because as I look at the question on my screen. My sense is that they're actually distinctive one from the other. So is it two voices that are competing inside of you?

[00:37:38] Lucia Dami: Oh. So I agree that they're distinctive in some people they will overlap more than in others.

[00:37:46] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:46] Lucia Dami: And it's funny because I was just talking about this in one of the classes that I was teaching on the Create archetype. Mm-hmm. Because as I was teaching her, I kept saying she really does overlap with the high priestess [00:38:00] archetype. And, you know, you can think of these two archetypes as the creative voice and the spiritual voice.

[00:38:05] Lucia Dami: And the similarities between these two archetypes of voices is that they live between realms creatively. If you distinguish it from being spiritual, you're living between the realm of imagination and ideas. And then the realm of expressing them and, and making something of them. And spiritually you're living between the realm of spirit and the divine and, and, you know, the, the spiritual realm and the physical realm.

[00:38:33] Lucia Dami: So they're both, both voices bridge a realm of mystery and of something intangible and around the physical realm that we live in.

[00:38:43] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:43] Lucia Dami: Um, so in my journey that those two voices have really overlapped because my creative, my creativity is often deeply connected to the visions that I have when I'm in the spiritual space or the, the messages that I receive there.

[00:38:59] Lucia Dami: [00:39:00] But that there are many artists who, create outside of, of being connected to something spiritual, right? Mm-hmm. That they're more engaging with the ideas that are generating through them, the imagination and things like that, the stories. Yeah, it's, this is an interesting question 'cause I, I think that they are separate and they do have their own separate mm-hmm.

[00:39:22] Lucia Dami: Fears, but then they also overlap. Yeah.

[00:39:27] Anne V Muhlethaler: So what are the ways in which you're trying to work with this question? I wanna say, try to resolve it. I dunno if that's the right word.

[00:39:38] Lucia Dami: Hmm. Well, something that we maybe haven't touched on in this conversation yet is the very visceral Hmm. Darkness that comes with that wound.

[00:39:56] Lucia Dami: Because I think for anyone who has, can relate [00:40:00] to this story, it's not just like, oh, I'm afraid and now I just have to deal with the fear. The, the fear will manifest in very. Challenging experiences emotionally. And, and I mean, like for me, I've even got sick at times. Like recently I had a flu and a cough.

[00:40:19] Lucia Dami: And it's like, okay, here's another way that I, I mean, the way that I see, it's like, here's another way that I, that subconscious part of me is wanting me to not speak and, and not say what I wanna say. And, people who are really sensitive will often, you know, go into some very difficult emotional spaces that feel really impossible to come out of.

[00:40:45] Lucia Dami: And one of the ways that I've been working with this challenge is by preparing myself better for those dark spaces. Because when I have [00:41:00] gone into them in the past. I, I guess an instinct is to try and distract yourself, right? So whether that's going on social media or, you know, just filling your, filling the space up with things that numb what you're feeling.

[00:41:15] Lucia Dami: Also, because sometimes it's like, I don't even know why I'm feeling this, because I can't, it's not like something just happened to me and now I'm feeling these things. It's a very subconscious experience. Like, it, it, it bubbles up, right? And, and you kind of drown a bit in the energy of it. , and we can, I mean, we often our ego will, will put stories to it and be like, well, it's because this person is, you know, has, is, has done this and they've made me feel disconnected from my power or these experiences in my life have made me feel this way.

[00:41:50] Lucia Dami: But what if we just strip it back and like really feel what's going on and allow it space and presence. So. [00:42:00] I've been trying to be more present in, in those moments. And I've gathered some new tools, like I said, mythology and finding a way to, to put a story to it that is more beneficial than the stories of like, well, these things happen to me and that's why I'm like this.

[00:42:17] Lucia Dami: And trying to analyze it or blame or shift, you know, the, the narrative. But instead being like, okay, well I'm here and how can I be more present in this space and give it a new story that has more hope. So if I think of the, the descent of Inana, which is actually was inspired by the ancient Sumerians, looking at the cycles of the moon and how the moon each month would slowly, descend into darkness and then slowly come back into her fullness, into light.

[00:42:44] Lucia Dami: And so the, the myth is that inana goes into the underworld, she dies and then comes back to life. And putting that story to these, these moments with these, you know, these emotional. Journeys or things that we, we move through helps us to, to [00:43:00] give a new perspective to it and maybe a framework of how we can move in and out of it with more consciousness and more power.

[00:43:08] Anne V Muhlethaler: So what I'm hearing you tell me is, and this is how I'm hearing it, is that you working with this question of how to work with your creative and spiritual voice means that there are, there are times where you'll feel the fullness and the ability to use and express those and moments where you go back down and you need to regroup and be in hiding.

[00:43:35] Anne V Muhlethaler: Is that what you're sharing?

[00:43:38] Lucia Dami: Sort of, yeah. So, yes. I guess that's what has been coming up for me personally lately is, is because the one thing that has stopped me from. Going into the space of expression and more visibility and more connection on an authentic level so that my, I [00:44:00] can connect from a space of my true creative self or my true spiritual self with other people and, and create, communities and spaces where that can really come to life.

[00:44:08] Lucia Dami: The thing that has stopped me is the, the fear. And for me, that fear has manifested in very challenging emotional spaces where I feel like I, you know, there's no, there's no way out and there's no point of trying to get out of this space, and I should never have tried to be creating what I've created.

[00:44:26] Lucia Dami: You know, there's really kind of almost evil voices that can show up in us. And I, I came to a point where I just started to be like, well, this is, I guess, something that I'm gonna have to deal with. It's a pattern. It's, it's, it's part of my journey. But recently I've realized that actually it can, it can be a part of my cyclical self.

[00:44:45] Lucia Dami: It's okay. It, there's a, there's a new kind of acceptance in that, but it doesn't mean that I have to find it so challenging. And so bringing these tools of mythology and dream work or, or, you know, other practices into that space can, can really help to [00:45:00] make it so that you don't lose the momentum that you were already building when you were in your, your full moon moment.

[00:45:07] Anne V Muhlethaler: Sure.

[00:45:08] Lucia Dami: You know, but I guess I, I also want to say that another way that I have always combated this fear is just by putting myself in those positions. So instead of trying to get perfect before I do it, I think there's something really powerful about just putting yourself in those spaces as a way of rewiring your sense of safety around it.

[00:45:28] Lucia Dami: Because the more you do it, the more you realize it's not so scary and that you are capable. Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean that you one day wake up and you feel like it's super easy, but it helps to expand you.

[00:45:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm.

[00:45:40] Lucia Dami: Gently and or, or not so gently into becoming more and more of, of that version of yourself.

[00:45:48] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm.

[00:45:54] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. I find the, I find the question very resonant [00:46:00] and I wonder what it's gonna feel like for the audience listening to us.

[00:46:05] Anne V Muhlethaler: You chose the words, and I find it interesting that you used the word stop hiding. So we've looked at what the creative voice means and what the spiritual voice means already. Two very interesting, loaded terms that tell a big story, but you also have this stop hiding. Would you tell us what that means at this, at this juncture in your life?

[00:46:44] Lucia Dami: Yeah, I think and I know a lot of, I've come across so many women who can relate to this story where we shrink in order to make other people feel safe or that they can, their, they can express their emotions or their ideas [00:47:00] or their fullness and not be shut down by hours. And so in my life, this has been a theme, especially because I've always been so sensitive.

[00:47:10] Lucia Dami: Growing up I was always so perceptive to everyone else's feelings and emotions, and I for some reason found it easy to just shrink myself and let everyone else have space. And that felt safe for me because if everyone else was okay, then I was okay. And I brought that into my adulthood and into my relationships, all of my relationships where.

[00:47:33] Lucia Dami: I was, I've always been a very good listener, a receiver of other people's, you know, stories and emotions and feelings. And that's been the comfort space for me to be that kind of, I'm here, I'll listen to you and you know, I can care for you. And I, I still do that, but I realize that it came at the cost of my own voice and of my own sense of self and safety in who I am.

[00:47:59] Lucia Dami: And even [00:48:00] knowing who I am and what I'm here to say. And I think that it's sad, but I can see how the women in my family line, especially my grandmothers, did that for their whole lives and sacrificed themselves for their family. And that was okay for them. And, but it, but on some deep level, it wasn't, you know, and I think that his historically women have been asked to do that.

[00:48:30] Lucia Dami: For their, for other people, but also in a way it's been a little bit of a threat for their own safety. You know, like, well, if you don't be quiet and put yourself aside for other people, then something bad's going to happen to you. And I feel collectively, it's not just me. I know so many women who have felt this call to take up more space and invest in their dreams and say what they, what their ideas are, speak their, what's on their [00:49:00] mind express their emotions, express their anger.

[00:49:03] Lucia Dami: And the, one of the problems that we're coming up against is that it's like, we don't really know how, you know, it's like, well, what's the framework for this? So I have been feeling this voice in me over the last couple of years of like, actually I'm not okay with, with hiding anymore and shrinking myself at the cost of, um

[00:49:25] Lucia Dami: yeah. At the cost of my, my own potential and, and what I'm here to, to say and give and create.

[00:49:33] Anne V Muhlethaler: Hmm. That's really beautiful. I'm so grateful that I asked you that.

[00:49:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: I'm gonna say something slightly controversial, um mm-hmm. But it, but it only mildly we talk about the feminine. We talk about the feminine as a type of energy, and I think you've mentioned it earlier, [00:50:00] and I know that in my lineage, the women that I can relate to that I got to know in my family were, had very little, if any, spirituality.

[00:50:14] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:15] Anne V Muhlethaler: They felt disconnected from that completely. And I remember working with a therapist in, in somatic experiencing and uncovering this image as if, as if they had been plastered over. So this energy, this thing that they had in them, it was, it just, it could not get out.

[00:50:33] Anne V Muhlethaler: They couldn't even connect to it. But similarly, and that's what I think is slightly controversial, the most spiritual people in my family have been men. And they were also asked to disconnect for, from their calling.

[00:50:49] Lucia Dami: Wow.

[00:50:49] Anne V Muhlethaler: Whether that was to be creative. My father desperately wanted to be a, a pastor. He wanted to be, he was a man of faith.

[00:50:55] Anne V Muhlethaler: Wow. A teenager of faith. And his mother refused and decided not to [00:51:00] speak to him for a whole year, or that's the, at least the story he told me.

[00:51:04] Lucia Dami: Wow.

[00:51:05] Anne V Muhlethaler: I, I know. Tell me about it.

[00:51:08] Lucia Dami: Wow.

[00:51:09] Anne V Muhlethaler: And he ended up at the end of his life, reconnecting to his faith and going to study theology at Geneva University. Yeah, because there's a lot of creativity and ideas and interpretation about life and the worlds that you could say is akin to mythology, right?

[00:51:25] Anne V Muhlethaler: Religion, mythology.

[00:51:26] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:27] Anne V Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. The tale. Absolutely.

[00:51:28] Lucia Dami: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:51:29] Anne V Muhlethaler: But also him wanting to live into the mystery of what you describe. And

[00:51:34] Anne V Muhlethaler: I'm saying this just to open the conversation to broader than just a woman versus man to make this about what, what we have been told is possible or what we are allowed to explore for ourselves. Does feel very much like a conflict between the masculine energy and the feminine energy. How does that sit with you as I say this.[00:52:00]

[00:52:00] Lucia Dami: Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that. I think it's such an important perspective to bring into this conversation. I have strongly taken the, the perspective of a woman and teaching women because that's what I know, and that's, and I, I've looked inside of myself and I've gone, oh my goodness. There's so much to cover here.

[00:52:23] Lucia Dami: Like, let's just focus on the women for now. But, but the divine feminine essence lives in men and women, and so you Yes. I, I mean that is such a moving story about your grandfather. Did you say your grandfather?

[00:52:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: No, it was my father.

[00:52:42] Lucia Dami: Your father. Wow. Because it reflects the same story that we've been speaking of, which is the discomfort that society has with the qualities of the divine feminine, which relate to mystery, the unseen faith.

[00:52:59] Lucia Dami: Mythology, [00:53:00] symbolism, you know, the, the, you know, religion, theology, the beauty that exists there. And the reason why women have come to this space, this place throughout history, is because men have been so uncomfortable with the divine feminine. Men haven't known what to do with it. It's too powerful.

[00:53:22] Lucia Dami: It's too untamable, just think of nature, right? They looked at nature and they said, okay, it's, we've gotta conquer this and, and tame it and control it in order to make you know it, our, and whatever. And so the same approach has been taken to, with the feminine. So any men who are called to connect with that inner feminine will also face the same challenges through a different lens.

[00:53:48] Lucia Dami: But at its core, it's about fear.

[00:53:53] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. Hmm. In essence, I feel like [00:54:00] the question that you brought us is incredibly rich and cause us to ask ourselves in what way are we still hiding each in our own way? What parts of ourselves are we afraid of, of letting out? But what could be, what is the opportunity on the other side if we dare work with the fear or,

[00:54:26] Lucia Dami: yes.

[00:54:26] Anne V Muhlethaler: Hopefully get over the fear.

[00:54:28] Lucia Dami: Yes. Yeah, and I, I know we touched a little bit on desire throughout this conversation, but I think our desires can be such a great compass for where it is we're supposed to move. You know, if you're someone who really doesn't know where to begin with this conversation, if you don't really feel like you have a creative voice or you don't have a spiritual voice.

[00:54:50] Lucia Dami: Then a good place to start is to connect with your desires and especially the desires that you feel are impossible [00:55:00] or not worth reaching for. You know, I know people who are like, oh yeah, I ha I would love to open a restaurant one day, or I would love to do this kind of thing. And I'm like, well, why, why don't you?

[00:55:10] Lucia Dami: And it's like, the response is often, well, no, I mean, no. You know why? They'll be silly. Like, why would I, why would I put my energy there? Or, it's not gonna work. Or you don't, you know the risks and don't, you know the challenges. And I'm not saying that you, you know, if you want to open a restaurant, you have to go and open a restaurant.

[00:55:25] Lucia Dami: But just follow that desire and see where it brings you. 'cause it's going to bring you up against those core fears that you have around expressing yourself and following your dreams. And being a passionate, creative person, and just working through those blocks alone is going to very likely open up.

[00:55:45] Lucia Dami: Other doors unrelated to the initial desire that are going to make your life so much more rich and meaningful.

[00:55:54] Anne V Muhlethaler: I'm really grateful you, you brought it together like this to to touch [00:56:00] on desire recently. I'm not someone who likes to add fuel to the fire or who loves to put controversy out there, but I found myself seeing a video by Reese Witherspoon. It was on Instagram where she was telling people to follow their talents, not their dreams.

[00:56:18] Anne V Muhlethaler: And I, I sat with it. I thought about it, I got disturbed by it, and then I put a comment saying, I'm sorry. I really don't agree.

[00:56:27] Lucia Dami: Mm.

[00:56:28] Anne V Muhlethaler: And because I think that sometimes we have a pool, a spark, a desire, and we don't necessarily, we don't have the skill yet. We don't have the talent. We just know we wanna go in a certain direction.

[00:56:40] Anne V Muhlethaler: We're not all born with an innate talent. Mm-hmm. And to think that we should suppress our instinct, our desires, especially as you describe them, when you don't know how or why they have, why they exist. I [00:57:00] find that we owe it to ourselves to at least explore what they mean. And so the idea that we should only follow our talent.

[00:57:07] Anne V Muhlethaler: I mean, what do you do if you don't know what your talent is for crying out loud? And so, yes, I'm grateful that you said that. I think desire is this, this spark of energy is saying something. And I guess, I think there's something really beautiful into, into choosing to pull out the thread. Obviously, I'm not saying like jump in to the, I'm mixing my metaphor from spark to diving in.

[00:57:35] Anne V Muhlethaler: You don't have to jump right in with a desire, but at least explore what it means and see where that can lead you.

[00:57:41] Lucia Dami: Yeah, yeah. I agree with, with you disagreeing with Reese with a spoon. Thank you. Especially because at a certain age you might have developed talents. That have nothing to do with who you authentically are.

[00:57:54] Lucia Dami: Absolutely.

[00:57:55] Anne V Muhlethaler: You

[00:57:55] Lucia Dami: know, you might have developed a skillset that just you needed in order to [00:58:00] get the job that you thought you wanted or that you did need or whatever. And then you, you've created these amazingly strong qualities, but you might have a dream that is much richer than Yeah. Those talents. So it's, it depends on, on the person.

[00:58:15] Lucia Dami: But I, I agree. I think your dreams are more can be more enlightening to who you are and, and where you would benefit most from going

[00:58:28] Anne V Muhlethaler: mm-hmm.

[00:58:29] Lucia Dami: Um, in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:34] Anne V Muhlethaler: This was, this is a good point to make, I have to say.

[00:58:37] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:39] Anne V Muhlethaler: Now. We are coming close to the end of the conversation. I would love to ask you, is there anything else about this question or about your work, something that you want to, to bring up before we wrap up?

[00:58:57] Lucia Dami: Hmm. [00:59:00] I think something that has felt very important to remember this is for the women, so mm-hmm. Yes. You know, here it is.

[00:59:11] Lucia Dami: Your, your power and your beauty and your gifts are not a threat. And in the same way other women's power and beauty and gifts and talents are not a threat to yours. I think that this plays a big role in the way that. We show up in our confidence as women because there can be a fear of like, well, there's not enough for everyone.

[00:59:48] Lucia Dami: And it kind of goes back into what I was saying earlier around shrinking even when it's not to do with, you know, you as a woman or someone else, as a woman, you know, just being like, well, it's, it's better if I shrink because then other people will [01:00:00] feel safe. But that also goes into the flip side where you might see someone very powerful, who is very talented and has the things that you wish you had, and you might think, well, oh, she's done it now, so I can't.

[01:00:12] Lucia Dami: And, and it's almost saying, well, her, the space she's taking up is a threat to the space that I can inhabit, because now that she's doing it, I feel that I can't, or it's too late for me, or it's not worth it. But I just, if I can remind anyone to just remove that story from their own narrative, I think it's so important.

[01:00:33] Lucia Dami: To remember that as, as you go through this journey of not hiding anymore because you will, most women will come into contact with both sides of that coin. On the one side, I am a threat to other people, and so I shouldn't show up in my power because oh, someone else is insecure now and I don't wanna make them feel insecure or someone else is, is so, you know, amazing and then she's shining so much that now I can't.

[01:00:56] Lucia Dami: So I think it's time that we change [01:01:00] the narrative that we're all here for a reason and there's space for all of us to take up space and, and be in our magnetism and in our power and pursuing our desires.

[01:01:14] Anne V Muhlethaler: That feels like a beautiful landing space for our conversation. Thank you so much, Lucia. Now before we close, I would love to ask you, what's one thing perhaps that.

[01:01:30] Anne V Muhlethaler: Surprised you that came up in today's conversation?

[01:01:40] Lucia Dami: I think I was surprised by the, the way that desire found its moment to shine in this conversation as something that has a lot of importance in the journey of not hiding anymore and not fearing our own spiritual and creative voices. Because I was reminded in [01:02:00] this conversation, that desire, as you said, it is a powerful energy and it's a life force energy that can give us courage to move forward despite fear and despite obstacles that we might see.

[01:02:15] Lucia Dami: Desire is a really powerful, forward moving energy. It's also a energy that has its own. Shadows and wounds, you know, the way that we connect to our desire can feel difficult. But even just connecting to it on a, on the level of like, what is it that I'm dreaming of? What is it that I want? And beginning to excavate the core of that desire can give us so much, so much courage to be able to take those leaps of faith.

[01:02:43] Anne V Muhlethaler: Yeah. I agree with you, and as you say this, you remind me that probably the change the course of my life changed the first time that I decided to journal on the theme. You know, what, what do I [01:03:00] want? What is, what are my desires? And to explore that beyond the idea that there should be only a single desire, right.

[01:03:09] Anne V Muhlethaler: That there could be a plethora of, of sparks and things and, and to I, and I think that to your point about. What this means, perhaps for women as well. I think that, that, that is part of the work of, of the descent, of going inwards and going in search of what it is that, that animates us.

[01:03:36] Lucia Dami: Mm-hmm. Yes. And I, I, I often think of things in the, the realm of tarot and astrology, so I just, for anyone who can relate to this, I, I really love what you're saying as well as descending into desire as, as almost like a stand, a starting place or a landing point from which we can rise.

[01:03:57] Lucia Dami: Because in astrology, the [01:04:00] first sign of the Zodiac is Aries. And Aries is this sign that says, I'm here and I, and I want this, so there's something that I want and I'm moving towards it, and I'm here in my fire and my passion and my desire, and nothing can stop me. And then it goes on a journey. And in tarot as well in the major Arcana you have.

[01:04:18] Lucia Dami: Number zero, the fool, which is the full potential, the opening of the story. But then the first archetype that the fool meets on its journey is the magician, which is, again, this, I, I am here and I have a desire. And from that place, a journey begins.

[01:04:35] Anne V Muhlethaler: Ooh. Oh, I love

[01:04:37] Lucia Dami: that. I know.

[01:04:39] Anne V Muhlethaler: Thank you so much, Lucia. That was such a wonderful conversation.

[01:04:42] Anne V Muhlethaler: I, I really feel enriched every time I come into contact with you and the work that you do and the art that, uh, you put out in the world. So I'm incredibly grateful that you are working to stop hiding and to put your creative and, and spiritual voice out there. I would love to ask you, [01:05:00] how can people connect to you?

[01:05:02] Anne V Muhlethaler: Um, what is the best way for them to discover your work, what you do, and, uh, tell us more.

[01:05:09] Lucia Dami: Well, thank you so much, first of all, Anne, and I really appreciate the spaces you open to have these conversations. And you, you have such a talent for drawing the, the story, the resonance story out of, out of people.

[01:05:21] Lucia Dami: So it's really beautiful. And yes, so I mostly share my work and myself on Instagram. But I have also just opened a Patreon where I am currently hosting my online Divine Feminine Archetypes course. And I'm really excited about this space because it's a container for us to be able to have deeper conversations about the topics that we've covered today.

[01:05:46] Lucia Dami: I also have classes on the divine feminine archetypes that I'm releasing seasonally this year. So Spring now we're in spring season, and we're covering the Create Tricks archetype, which we've spoken a lot about today. Ooh. [01:06:00] We are also going into the lover archetype, which she relates deeply to that realm of desire and connecting with, with her desire.

[01:06:07] Lucia Dami: And we're also covering the maiden archetype, which is kind of the, the aspect of ourselves that is open to discovery and exploration and transition and change. And I have meditations in there, and I'll do live q and As. So it's really a space where we get to deep dive into the feminine, the, the cyclical living, the different phases of being a woman unlocking our power.

[01:06:32] Lucia Dami: And I'll be, I'll be doing a lot of different things in that space too, like talking about tarot and things. But for now it's just mainly the, the feminine archetypes. So I would love to see anyone who's interested in that, in that space and connect with you there. I'll make sure that Anne has the link for that.

[01:06:48] Anne V Muhlethaler: What's the name of it?

[01:06:49] Lucia Dami: The mystic feminine.

[01:06:51] Anne V Muhlethaler: The mystic feminine. Awesome. Yes. I'll make sure that all of the links are available for everyone who wants to come and discover. Well, thank you so [01:07:00] much, Lucia. I hope that I will get to see you again very soon. And I'm very grateful for the time and the space, the energy that you gave to this conversation.

[01:07:09] Anne V Muhlethaler: So I hope until, thank

[01:07:11] Lucia Dami: you.

[01:07:11] Anne V Muhlethaler: Next time.

[01:07:12] Lucia Dami: Yes, until next time. Thank you so much, Anne.

[01:07:15] Anne V Muhlethaler: Take care.

[01:07:16] Lucia Dami: Bye

[01:07:16]