What is your assignment right now - and if not now, then when? with Francesca Hogi

What is your assignment right now - and if not now, then when? with Francesca Hogi

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[00:00:05] Speaker: Hi, welcome to the Metta interview, generous conversations with Brilliant Humans. I'm Anne V Mühlethaler and I'm delighted to share today my conversation with Francesca Hoge. I first encountered Francesca at Ted in Vancouver in 2023 where she delivered a striking three minutes talk on dismantling the Princess Industrial Complex.

[00:00:33] Speaker: I know, right? Brief as it was her message, her talk left an echo that resonated with me long after she left that famous red circle on the stage. And perhaps because like Francesca, I grew up a deeply romantic child something in her words struck a chord that continued to reverberate. Now, Franny, as she's known to her friends or dear Franny, to her [00:01:00] podcast listeners and Instagram followers, Francesca is a love educator and coach on a mission to help people create. The relationships in lives that they truly want. We were connected in person in Paris of all places last year, and again, when I interviewed her for Out of the Clouds following the publication of her book, how to Find True Love.

[00:01:23] Speaker: When I began developing the program for Le Trente, I knew I wanted Francesca on board. I sensed. There were fascinating deaths to explore, and I was right. The question alive for her at the moment feels both incredibly powerful and universal.

[00:01:42] Speaker: In today's conversation, we journey through her story from romantic childhood dreams and beach Sundays with ice cream through a decade as a lawyer, knowing it wasn't her path to finding her true calling and helping others with love.

[00:01:58] Speaker: We explore what she means [00:02:00] when she asks, what is your assignment right now, and if not now, when As she prepared for her second TED Talk on unlocking your flirting superpowers, we recorded this conversation about possibility, purpose, and the urgency of stepping into our missions, both personal and collective in these troubled or uncertain times. I hope this conversation resonates as deeply with you as it did with me. Let's dive in.

[00:02:35] Anne Muhlethaler: Francesca, I'm so happy to see you. Welcome to the Metta Interview.

[00:02:39] Francesca Hogi: Thank you, Anne. Always great to see you and thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:43] Anne Muhlethaler: It's my pleasure and it's lovely to reconnect once more. So you've been on Out of the Clouds and as you know, I like to do some, something a little bit different here with the Metta Interview, and I'd like to start the conversation by asking you what is one thing [00:03:00] that's exciting you at the moment, or anything that's, let's say, had you very curious or engaged in the last few days?

[00:03:08] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. Well, yesterday was my birthday, my 51st birthday, and every year I have, I call it birthday clarity because I always have a lot of insights that start percolating right before my birthday and this year, I've really been thinking a lot about possibility.

[00:03:32] Francesca Hogi: And just really actually pushing myself to envision things working out better, if we're gonna imagine something that we're about to do, like why not just imagine the best possible outcome of everything? So I basically, am, am treating this next year, which I decided yesterday on my birthday as an experiment in just possibility like.

[00:03:58] Francesca Hogi: I'm just going to [00:04:00] not, I'm gonna really be practiced about only giving my energy and my, my thoughts to what I want to see and not like, okay, well what's the best that I could hope for in this situation? So that's what I've been thinking a lot

[00:04:12] Anne Muhlethaler: about. Oh, that sounds gorgeous. When did you first come across this idea? This notion of, of possibility?

[00:04:19] Anne Muhlethaler: I'm, I'm very curious and excited about this now.

[00:04:24] Francesca Hogi: Well, years ago I read a book called Infinite Possibilities by Mike Dooley. And this is basically what it's about. It's about using our energy and our mental, our mental energy, our spiritual energy to really imagine really great outcomes. And I think that, you know, and I'm sure you can relate to this, Anne and I certainly can, that there's just been times in your life where you just knew in your heart and your spirit that things were gonna be fine, even if, or maybe more than fine.

[00:04:54] Francesca Hogi: Right. Like, you knew things were gonna work out, even if there was maybe a lot of quote [00:05:00] evidence to, to the contrary. Like, you could have gone into worry. Mm-hmm. But you just had, you were just operating from a place of No, actually everything. I know everything's gonna be okay. And I think that we all have those moments of grace where we are really.

[00:05:17] Francesca Hogi: In that place, and we can just operate from there. And it's very, it's a very, it's like a flow state right? When you're moving through mm-hmm. And you're just like, I know everything's gonna be okay. It's very easy to fall back into our old habits and, you know, and to fall into the worrying mind and the anxiety of like, what's gonna happen?

[00:05:35] Francesca Hogi: And I just, I think, I don't know, it's, maybe it's just a function of being in America at the end of democracy. Maybe it's, yeah. You know, it's just, it's like, yeah, we have to start using our power individually and collectively to imagine what we want, because we are very clear what we don't want, but what is it [00:06:00] that we want and how can we really commit ourselves to that vision?

[00:06:05] Francesca Hogi: And that's really what I've been thinking a lot about.

[00:06:09] Anne Muhlethaler: I'm so glad you said that. First of all, I know I'm calling it something different, and I don't even know that I have many words for it, but I've been practicing something similar is finding certainty and faith and moving forward with both the goal in mind but also this sense that of deep belief, right?

[00:06:36] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm.

[00:06:37] Anne Muhlethaler: The other day I was guiding a, a group through what I like to call a intention hour, which I offer once a month, which is a, it's a short reflection format with a bunch of questions to help people tap into their deep intention. But one of the things I realized and that I think what you said makes so much sense is so important.

[00:06:57] Anne Muhlethaler: That I journaled myself during the [00:07:00] hours. So I gave the participant the prompts and I jotted a few things down for myself. And in the middle of the process, I realized that I wasn't clear about the outcome that I was looking for. And so I think that what you speak of about having a clear vision of what it is that you want, like what's the ideal outcome?

[00:07:16] Anne Muhlethaler: I know this, but I realize that oftentimes even I can be unclear unless, you know, I sit my bum down and ask myself the question. Yeah. Until we have clarity, it's very hard to get to what we want. Oh, thanks. Thanks for talking about that. Yeah. It, it really can be. You're reminding me that I didn't resolve that.

[00:07:35] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:39] Francesca Hogi: Well, I love that intention hour. I'm like, Hmm, I might borrow that one. That's a great idea. But yeah, I think it's, it's, we take for granted that we know what we want. But if once you actually do start sitting down and thinking about it and writing it out, you can realize, oh wait, I'm, I'm pretty confused.

[00:07:55] Francesca Hogi: And I actually think I talk about this a little bit in my book in terms of [00:08:00] the, the search for romantic love, but it, it applies to everything I believe, which is how we can really split our energy, right? Yeah. So there's part of you that's like, this is the outcome that I want, and then there's part of you that's like, not clear, or maybe you have beliefs that you can't have that outcome.

[00:08:19] Francesca Hogi: And so your energy is not, it's being split between thoughts and feelings that affirm what you want, and then thoughts and feelings that affirm what you don't want. And so you're kind of getting all of these mixed results because Yeah. In part because, we're not really, we're not really clear.

[00:08:36] Francesca Hogi: But I think that one thing that's really helpful, that I always encourage people to do is to really reflect on those times in life where you did have absolute clarity and you had clarity of that vision and you, it was something that you were able to really hold to

[00:08:53] Anne Muhlethaler: mm-hmm.

[00:08:54] Francesca Hogi: In the face of a, of a journey and ups and downs and obstacles. And I know we've all done that. And so [00:09:00] it's like how we, how do you tap into that and then bring it forward and continue to do it in an intentional way. And that's what I'm focused on right now.

[00:09:09] Anne Muhlethaler: And that sounds great. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:09:13] Anne Muhlethaler: Now, yeah, I was wondering if you'd be so kind to introduce yourself to our audience, but in your own words, how would you like to Yes. Describe who you are.

[00:09:28] Francesca Hogi: I am someone who helps people with love, so I consider myself to be a love educator and a coach, and I do lots of different things, but for me, everything is under the umbrella of empowering people to helping, to empower people, to really have the lives that they want and the relationships that they want.

[00:09:54] Francesca Hogi: So that's my mission and that takes lots of different forms. Mm-hmm. And I've done lots of different [00:10:00] things in my, in my lifetime and in my career. But, you know, love is really my, is my calling.

[00:10:07] Anne Muhlethaler: Hmm.

[00:10:09] Anne Muhlethaler: I can, I just say that's the best answer ever. Love is my calling. How great is that?

[00:10:19] Francesca Hogi: Oh, thank you. I mean, I think it's all of our calling, but you know, I think so that's, maybe that's another conversation. You

[00:10:25] Francesca Hogi: just,

[00:10:26] Anne Muhlethaler: you just realized that this was yours in a professional manner. Right?

[00:10:31] Francesca Hogi: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:10:34] Anne Muhlethaler: That's beautiful. Now, in this first part of the interview, I would love to ask you several questions to help sort of draw out stories to help people understand more of who you are.

[00:10:46] Anne Muhlethaler: And one of the things I love to ask is what is a childhood memory, and that still makes you smile or makes you giggle? Anything come to mind that you want to share? [00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Francesca Hogi: Oh

[00:11:01] Francesca Hogi: gosh. Yeah, I mean, I, well the first thing that came to mind, one of, one of my favorite things to reflect on in my childhood is summertime, Sundays, because as a family, we used to go to church in the morning on Sunday. But then after church we would go to the beach and, you know, in the summertime obviously. Mm-hmm. We would go to the beach or we would take long drives and we would, my whole family, there was five of us growing up.

[00:11:32] Francesca Hogi: We all loved ice cream and so everything was like building up to the moment where we would go get ice cream.

[00:11:44] Francesca Hogi: I see you. And as a kid it was like, it was just like the best

[00:11:48] Anne Muhlethaler: hats off to your family and to you guys. We, we have values in common. Yeah. That's awesome. Oh,

[00:11:56] Francesca Hogi: I love it. I love it. Yeah. Such good memories of just [00:12:00] like you know, so I grew up in New York and there's this island. I don't know if you actually are familiar. Have you ever heard of City Island?

[00:12:07] Anne Muhlethaler: No, I haven't actually.

[00:12:09] Francesca Hogi: Okay. So City Island is this tiny little island that's off of the Bronx. There's one road that takes you, there is just like one main street.

[00:12:18] Francesca Hogi: Huh? And it's really charming. You go there and you're like. I'm in New York, I'm in the Bronx, and at the very end of the island, there are two basically rival seafood restaurants. One is called Sammy's and one is called Johnny's.

[00:12:32] Francesca Hogi: And it's like a thing of like, do you go to Sammy's or do to Johnny's? Nobody goes to both. You have to choose one. And we were a Johnny's family. And so we would go to Johnny's and we would get seafood. And then there was this awesome ice cream parlor on, on City Island called Hippies. And it was this old fashioned ice cream parlor.

[00:12:49] Francesca Hogi: And they would have these big sundaes and these big glass bowls and yeah, that's what we used to do. And I used to yeah, see, I'm still smiling and now I want a banana split.[00:13:00]

[00:13:02] Anne Muhlethaler: That's brilliant. It's crazy because I feel like I'm there. I, I hope I get to visit. Do they still, I mean, I hope that Sammy's and Johnny's are still in business.

[00:13:13] Francesca Hogi: Yes, they are still in business. Still going strong. Rivalry's still going strong. Oh, yay. Unfortunately hippies is no longer there, but that's okay.

[00:13:24] Anne Muhlethaler: Oh, well

[00:13:29] Anne Muhlethaler: That's got me thinking about seafood and Sundays and beach and, oh God. Anyways, thank you for this sort of many life travel time, travel moment now. Yeah. As you already know,

[00:13:44] Francesca Hogi: you

[00:13:46] Anne Muhlethaler: thank you. As you already know, part of what I aim to do with the Metta Interview, also to shine a light on the multiple faceted nature of our self.

[00:13:57] Anne Muhlethaler: And so I was wondering what do you [00:14:00] think are one or two early experiences that may have put you on the path that you are now on today?

[00:14:12] Francesca Hogi: Oh gosh. I mean, I feel like there's a lot, because I mean, my, my whole life, as long as I can remember, I, I was a dreamer, you know, I think all kids are. Mm-hmm. But I was really, like, I dreamt of having romance and I was very, I was a very romantic child. Right. Like, I started, you know, reading romance novels when I was way too young. And I just remember reading these tales of, love affairs and international adventures and all of this. And I was just like, that sounds good. I wanna do that. Yes. Can't wait. You know? And so I think that growing up, I was never someone who who knew what I wanted to be when I grew up.

[00:14:57] Francesca Hogi: Right. Like, I hated when adults would ask [00:15:00] me what do you wanna be when you grow up? And I'm like, like, I just wanna be happy. I didn't ever have a profession that I was like, yes, I see myself as that. Which actually used to cause me a ton of anxiety well into my adulthood frankly.

[00:15:14] Francesca Hogi: Sure. Because as you know, Anne, I was a, I was an attorney, I was a lawyer and my previous career, and but anyway, long before that, I, I, so I had this vision of the kind of life that I wanted to have. But love and relationships was a really, really big part of it. But it was never interestingly like. I want to like, get married and have a fairytale wedding.

[00:15:38] Francesca Hogi: Like it wasn't that. So it was like, I wanna have lots of different relationships and I wanna have lots of different adventures. And so I, there was something in me that always wanted to really explore love and relationship and connection. I never wanted to just like have it be okay, let me [00:16:00] just meet someone as soon as possible and settle down.

[00:16:02] Francesca Hogi: I never wanted that. Mm-hmm. I wanted to like, let's see what this is all about. So I think that started, you know, very early with the romance novels and movies. I always loved movies ever since I was a little kid. That was another thing that my family and I used to do was go to the movies a lot together as a family.

[00:16:19] Francesca Hogi: Oh, actually this is a bit of an aside, but I realized recently that I can remember many, many, many movies that I went to see as a kid. I can remember the theater. I saw it in like I can remember and it's not, I mean, we used to go to the movies all the time. This is like a lot of movies. It's not like, I remember the one time we went to the movies and I was like, sure.

[00:16:40] Francesca Hogi: It's a lot of movies. And I'm like, wow, movies have really made a very deep impression on me. Huh. So movies and love stories have been a big part of my life and something that's always really captured my imagination. Mm.

[00:16:56] Anne Muhlethaler: Thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:16:58] Anne Muhlethaler: Now. I'd [00:17:00] love to ask if you could describe your professional journey as a type of journey. You could think of it like in many different ways as a road trip, a climb, I don't know, a plane journey, a dance. What do you think it would be? How would you describe it?

[00:17:20] Francesca Hogi: That is such an interesting question, Anne.

[00:17:23] Francesca Hogi: Mm. I feel like it was a long meandering road trip. Mm. There was definitely, it was a car. It wasn't, not a plane. That would've been way too fast. A very long meandering road trip with a lot of detours, with a lot of like, oh. Well, what's this? Let's go check this out. And then someone saying, and then someone saying, Hey, have you ever heard about this? You should go see that. And I'm like, sure. So I, I feel that I, as I mentioned, I never had a very clear idea of what I wanted to do career [00:18:00] wise growing up.

[00:18:01] Francesca Hogi: And so, as an adult really went into it as like, okay, let's try this, let's try that. It was, there was a lot of exploration and also a lot of years that I spent, doing things that, and I, I, this is referring to being a lawyer. , I practiced law for over 10 years and I knew year one, that's not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

[00:18:23] Francesca Hogi: And I still did it for 10 years.

[00:18:27] Anne Muhlethaler: Dude, that's tough. I mean, that has to be really tough.

[00:18:32] Francesca Hogi: You know, it was tough. But I will say, I mean. Don't feel too sorry for me because No, no, no, no, no. You know.

[00:18:38] Anne Muhlethaler: No, no, I, I don't mean, sorry, but that's still, yeah. I mean, for you, for your inner life, that's Yes. Tough. Yes. I'm sure externally there were lots of wonderful things, and that was not a terrible life, essentially.

[00:18:50] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:18:51] Francesca Hogi: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Internally it was tough. But what I learned on that long journey, you know, on that, on that [00:19:00] road, was even though I was like, okay, I'm not, this isn't the, this isn't the road that I wanna stay on. Sure. I was able to take different experiences and skills, and it did teach me a lot about myself.

[00:19:14] Francesca Hogi: And so there were things that I discovered practicing law that were really meaningful to me. I realized that I actually love helping people. I love having a client who has a problem, and then I'm able to solve that problem.

[00:19:29] Francesca Hogi: And so I took that as a clue where I said, okay, well I like helping people solve problems. I just didn't want those problems for the rest of my life to be, how does this corporation make more money out of this transaction kind of problems? I was like, I mean, no, there's, listen, I'm not even judging it. It's just in terms of what I felt like I was on this planet to do it, it didn't feel like it was that.

[00:19:55] Anne Muhlethaler: Sure.

[00:19:55] Francesca Hogi: So, but there, but, so there were things along the journey that I was able to take with [00:20:00] me that provided clues that it was like, okay, well this isn't the road, but I do like helping people. So let me. Go more down the helping people road and then see, okay, well actually I wanna help people with something that's personal to them.

[00:20:13] Francesca Hogi: And then it was like, okay, well what's more personal than love and relationships? You know? So it was all like a, yeah, meandering. But I got there in the end.

[00:20:25] Anne Muhlethaler: Ah, thank you so much for sharing that. You know, it's kind of wonderful because my next question was going to be asking you, you know, what's the biggest challenge that you've had to overcome in your career?

[00:20:36] Anne Muhlethaler: And I wonder if that's, if that's what it is. I,

[00:20:41] Francesca Hogi: I think probably the biggest challenge I had to overcome was pivoting from being a lawyer to being a matchmaker. Yes. And it wasn't that I ran into massive obstacles, but people were like. [00:21:00] Really, like there was I had, look, I have a lot of wonderful, supportive people in my life, but the responses pretty much for the most part ranged from, well, I know you're gonna be successful, whatever you do, so go for it

[00:21:18] Francesca Hogi: to, are you sure you wanna do this after all of this time that you spent like getting this degree and practicing and like, you sure you wanna leave all so I think there were a lot of people in my life who were, they were trying to be supportive, but I could tell that they really thought I was, you know, running off to join the circus.

[00:21:36] Francesca Hogi: Yeah, and so there was, that part was just, you know, mentally, actually, this goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning. I had to really ground myself in just knowing, I know this seems like a very random thing to do for your career.

[00:21:50] Francesca Hogi: Mm-hmm. But I just had this conviction. I was like, it's going to work out. It's gonna work out. and so I think just making that pivot and then [00:22:00] storytelling that pivot, you know, quote, rebranding myself. I mean, I didn't really use that term 12 years ago, of course. But that, that was the biggest challenge.

[00:22:12] Francesca Hogi: I'm sure you can relate to that and yeah. I, I know many of your listeners can relate to the challenge of making a very sharp career pivot.

[00:22:22] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah,

[00:22:23] Francesca Hogi: yeah.

[00:22:23] Anne Muhlethaler: It's bold, it's daring. And I also love that you link that to possibility, right? To that sense of needing to ground in, in thinking that the best is yet to come and that you can put your, your faith and trust in that.

[00:22:40] Anne Muhlethaler: How lovely. That's it. Yeah. Very nice circle. We've already drawn in this interview. Thank you.

[00:22:45] Francesca Hogi: Oh, you,

[00:22:47] Anne Muhlethaler:  I'd love to ask you something a little bit offbeat now. What would be a metaphor that captures how you are moving through the world right now?

[00:22:59] Anne Muhlethaler: [00:23:00] Because you're still making bold moves. You haven't left that behind. Just want to say for people who don't know this,

[00:23:07] Francesca Hogi: thank you, Anne. I am moving through the world.

[00:23:13] Francesca Hogi: Okay. Well this is, this is a great question. You have really good questions.

[00:23:20] Francesca Hogi: I am moving through the world as if though I have a magic wand.

[00:23:25] Francesca Hogi: Oh, look at you. I'm glad I

[00:23:28] Anne Muhlethaler: asked.

[00:23:32] Anne Muhlethaler: Go on,

[00:23:33] Francesca Hogi: please. So I have this belief that the things that we most are called to experience, there's lots of things that we might be like, oh, it's going back to that road trip. It's like, oh, sure, that's a cute little scenic detour. Right? I'll go look at that view.

[00:23:48] Francesca Hogi: But you know, you're kinda like, oh, I'll do it. But you don't, you're not like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to like see this view. I can't wait to see explore this road or see, you know, it's, there's a difference. And I think in life [00:24:00] we can get caught and I certainly have in a lot of like, oh, sure, that's cute.

[00:24:04] Francesca Hogi: I'll try that, I'll go there. But going back to this like idea of like infinite possibilities and this new experiment that I'm doing, I really believe that the things that we're really called to do when you're like, no, I. I really wanna explore this. I really wanna explore this road. I really wanna climb this mountain.

[00:24:21] Francesca Hogi: I really wanna have this love. I really wanna have this impact, like the things that we're really called to do. I believe that we are called to do them because we are meant to do them.

[00:24:32] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:24:33] Francesca Hogi: Right. And taking that even further, it's like, okay, if you're meant to do it, then there is, there is a path for you to do that.

[00:24:43] Francesca Hogi: Like, I do not believe that we have a, a calling in our hearts that we do not have the means to fulfill. And I don't mean like a longing, right? You lose, you know, I've lost people that I love very much. I'm not saying like, oh, I can bring those people back. I'm not talking about that.

[00:24:57] Francesca Hogi: Right? But I'm talking about the things that I'm like, no, for [00:25:00] me, in my life, I feel called to do something. I really believe that for all of us, there's a reason and, and it's available to us. Now how we get there, that's the journey, right? Yes. But now that I'm stepping into this place of, of more possibility mm-hmm.

[00:25:18] Francesca Hogi: I just don't wanna operate from any sense of doubt because what is meant to, I, I, when I say a magic wand, I don't mean that I literally think I'm gonna get every single thing that I want. Right.

[00:25:29] Anne Muhlethaler: Because I don't think that, that's not how I took it. But thank you for explain.

[00:25:32] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. Right. Like, I don't think that that's how, like we're not meant to get every single thing that we want when we want it.

[00:25:37] Francesca Hogi: Right? Like, it's not, it's not that. However, the, the, the vision of the magic wand, I mean your question inspired that answer. I wasn't going around saying that before. Sure. Just so you know.

[00:25:50] Anne Muhlethaler: I feel it.

[00:25:51] Francesca Hogi: You did that

[00:25:51] Francesca Hogi: Anne.

[00:25:53] Anne Muhlethaler: I take responsibility. Absolutely.

[00:25:56] Francesca Hogi: Is like, if I did, going back to [00:26:00] what you were saying, if I did have a magic wand.

[00:26:03] Francesca Hogi: Right. Mm. And I could have any outcome that I want from this situation.

[00:26:07] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:26:08] Francesca Hogi: What would it be? I mean, here, I'll, I'll even go out on a limb because this is, this is a real time thing that's happening. Mm-hmm. So next week, in six days, I'm giving my second TED talk and Oh, yes, of

[00:26:21] Anne Muhlethaler: course. 'cause it's TED Next.

[00:26:22] Anne Muhlethaler: Yes.

[00:26:22] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. Yes. And it's called How to Unlock Your Flirting Superpowers. Ooh. And I, and I have just decided that this talk is going to be a hit.

[00:26:36] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. Like

[00:26:36] Francesca Hogi: I don't know all the things that are gonna happen. I, that's not my department, but I'm literally envisioning that when I say thank you.

[00:26:45] Francesca Hogi: The audience is like, woo, like, like the audience is cheering. I'm imagining myself. I'm on stage and I'm looking at people, and people are engaged and they're excited and they're smiling and they're laughing and like I'm so convinced [00:27:00] that this is the outcome. So I'm going on a limb here. out on a limb here.

[00:27:04] Anne Muhlethaler: Sure.

[00:27:06] Francesca Hogi: So we'll see how, we'll see how this, this, this, this first, uh, magic wand experiment of yeah. My 51st year goes. But but yeah, it's, it's like why not? Why not? I'm gonna do it anyway. Sure. So why not just decide that I'm gonna enjoy doing it, that I'm gonna feel great doing it, that my intention for it to be really for it to land really well with people.

[00:27:30] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. That, that is, is that's meaningful and that's going, that's what's going to happen. So yeah, that's my do, do, do.

[00:27:40] Anne Muhlethaler: I love it. This is really exciting and thank you for sharing that. That's, that's personal and juicy and full of energy. And I definitely am sending you all of my boost from my end in Geneva. I'm sure is gonna be a success. Thank

[00:27:56] Francesca Hogi: you. Thank you. And everyone who's listening to this can be like, okay, let's [00:28:00] look up this talk and see if she did it.

[00:28:04] Anne Muhlethaler: I have no doubt that you're gonna deliver. I have no doubt. Thank you. I'm operating on, on behalf of you with a lot of certainty as well.

[00:28:13] Francesca Hogi: Oh, thank you.

[00:28:15] Anne Muhlethaler: But it's funny because, I'm sorry,

[00:28:17] Francesca Hogi: Anne, what's your answer to that question? I'm so curious. What's a metaphor for you? If I was to

[00:28:22] Anne Muhlethaler: answer, Ooh, it's funny because it wasn't, there wasn't a word that came through.

[00:28:32] Anne Muhlethaler: There's an image that came through and it's a really odd one. I could see like a beautiful, rather still, expanse of water, like a deep, like nice gray blue sort of very still. And I am some kind of fish and I'm just sliding. I'm gliding through. I dunno what it means. Ooh, yes. [00:29:00] It's funny sometimes when you hear something and the answer is not words.

[00:29:04] Anne Muhlethaler: It's more so, I don't know. I can't really tell you what kind of fish, but, but, but it's, I'm sliding through like this or colliding

[00:29:17] Francesca Hogi: I'm going places. That's beautiful. You are going places with ease and grace. I mean, I'm going somewhere.

[00:29:22] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. It felt very in a also though image of the water itself was beautiful.

[00:29:31] Anne Muhlethaler: It. I don't know. It had, um, yeah, it's that kind of bluey gray. I don't know. Funny.

[00:29:38] Francesca Hogi: That is funny. I love that. And, and also it reminds me, 'cause this is another thing that I've not, not super recently, but I would say in the last year that I've come to realize is that we're so, well, I'll speak for myself. I'm so used to thinking, thinking, trying to, you know, figure everything out in my mind.

[00:29:57] Francesca Hogi: I always want clarity. I wanna get [00:30:00] answers. And I realize that a lot of the answers are not, they're not words.

[00:30:06] Francesca Hogi: They actually are images and they are feelings. And that's actually pretty cool. Mm-hmm. And I actually find it. I, I like it better than just thinking everything, like thinking, thinking, thinking. I love that image of you in the beautiful water. This calm still blue, gray water, and there you are just gliding through it all. Like, oh, that's just, that's cool.

[00:30:33] Anne Muhlethaler: Cinematic. Thank you so much for saying that. Yes, it is a bit cinematic even in the, the, I wish I could plug you in so you could see the image in my mind.

[00:30:42] Anne Muhlethaler: I found the same thing to be true, and I have to say I'm seeing a couple of different therapists to support me in my journey, whether. You know, at any point, personal entrepreneurial. And I did do some work with two counselors that specialize in somatic experiencing, which is the work of a Dr.

[00:30:59] Anne Muhlethaler: Peter Levine. [00:31:00] And I have to say, it's kind of amazing and trippy, and I'm sure that I could unpack that image if I got myself into a session in the coming days. Maybe this is a sign that I need to yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:15] Francesca Hogi: It's very cool. That's very cool. Yeah.

[00:31:18] Anne Muhlethaler: But going back to how you answered the question and how you described the you know, linking back to possibility in the sense that we all have, there are things that we're meant to fulfill.

[00:31:31] Anne Muhlethaler: I feel like this is gently bringing us to the core question that we explored, and chose together for today's interview. So the question that we identified in our earlier conversation is, what is your assignment right now?

[00:31:47] Anne Muhlethaler: And if not now, when? Do you wanna tell me more about this question and why it's so alive for you?

[00:31:55] Francesca Hogi: Yes. So, as a coach, I, [00:32:00] I have come to be very, very focused with my clients. I'm really understanding like, what is the actual assignment at hand. So, for instance, if someone comes to me and, they haven't dated in many years and, you know, maybe that's, that's just not something that they prioritize and now they're like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm ready to date and I really wanna meet someone and fall in love.

[00:32:21] Francesca Hogi: And I'm like, okay, awesome. But also, let's think about on the path to you falling in love. What's the immediate assignment? Because sometimes the immediate assi, immediate assignment is, I actually need to start carving out time and space in my life for myself, so I actually have the bandwidth to let another person in, because I've been so focused on, you know, maybe your career or something else that was going on, and there was no space for that.

[00:32:48] Francesca Hogi: So if you're just trying to jump ahead to like, let me just meet, meet, meet people, but where in your life is there the space to hold that and to cultivate a relationship and to allow someone else in? So [00:33:00] that's just one small example. Another example, going back to flirting. Your assignment might be you need to get more comfortable receiving romantic attention, or yes, you need to get more comfortable allowing yourself to really be seen for who you are and not show up in a way that you think other people, you think that's gonna make you lovable. Because even if you quote succeed, you're not gonna choose the right partner because that person doesn't even know who you really are.

[00:33:27] Francesca Hogi: Right? So I think of assignments as, what is it that I actually need to do? I look at things as, there's our department, that's what we do. And then there's, you know, the universe's department, and those are all the many, many factors that we cannot control, right? And so our assignment is really a way of understanding like, okay, on my path to what it is that I want to achieve, this is what I need to do.

[00:33:52] Francesca Hogi: Just like you said, you realize, you're like, okay, I, I need support on this path, right?

[00:33:56] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm. So

[00:33:57] Francesca Hogi: you're working with these therapists and I've worked with [00:34:00] many coaches and all these, it's like understanding what it is that you need to get you there. And the reason that I, that I say, if not now, then when is because this is our life.

[00:34:11] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. And this is the moment that we're in and tomorrow is not promised to us. And the way everyone can feel that things in the world are accelerating so quickly, things are changing so dramatically and so many parts of life. And I, I think that we're kind of past the point for those of us , who have the privilege of being able to like, have the bandwidth to think about, well, what do I really want?

[00:34:43] Francesca Hogi: You know, like, not everybody even has that bandwidth and that privilege. So I want to acknowledge that, but

[00:34:49] Anne Muhlethaler: Sure.

[00:34:49] Francesca Hogi:  If someone is listening to this, then they have the privilege to think about themselves and life and ideas, which is a beautiful thing. And [00:35:00] I think that those of us who can, we really need to step up for ourselves and for those who can't.

[00:35:08] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:35:09] Francesca Hogi:  And I'm sure you see this too, but you know, something that I have seen so much as a coach is like, how people are so amazing and they have so much to give and they have so much to share. But, we're human and we have trauma and we have insecurities, and we have all of these things that cause so much self doubt.

[00:35:28] Francesca Hogi: And I just want us to stop taking our insecurities. So personally it's like, yeah, I feel like I might not be good enough to do this.

[00:35:38] Anne Muhlethaler: Sure.

[00:35:39] Francesca Hogi: But here I am and I'm gonna do it anyway because if I don't do it now, then when, and I just don't think that we have. We never had the luxury of time because tomorrow has never been promised.

[00:35:52] Francesca Hogi: Right. Yeah. And our lives have always meant to be lived, but I think that what's happening in the world now really is [00:36:00] acutely bringing that into focus. And so I wanna do, you know, what I can to empower people to say okay, yeah, I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to have all the answers.

[00:36:14] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. I just have to believe in myself and just step by step, do what I can with a lot of self-compassion and yeah, let's make this world a better place. But that starts with putting ourselves individually in a better place and Mm. You know, filling up our own buckets so we can then Yeah.

[00:36:33] Francesca Hogi:  We can help other people. It's like, what can we give from an empty bucket?

[00:36:37] Anne Muhlethaler: Not much. Yeah, thanks. I, I'm, I know we've talked about this before. I am touched by it. And also I love the synchronicity 'cause I know you love synchronicity because I do.

[00:36:52] Francesca Hogi: Three hours ago I was

[00:36:53] Anne Muhlethaler: on the phone call to a new client who told me about her inner critic, and I said, 'cause it was a very short call. And [00:37:00] I said, you can thank your inner critic and say, I know that you're trying to protect you, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

[00:37:05] Francesca Hogi: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:37:11] Anne Muhlethaler: But I wanna unpack a couple of different things you've just mentioned here.

[00:37:14] Anne Muhlethaler: Let's go back to the question, what is my assignment? How would you invite someone who is listening to us, who's not sure what their assignment is? Where would you, where would they start?

[00:37:31] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. Well, I think it's a good idea to start with where you wanna be and then work backwards. So when I work with clients, we set three, well, we set three month goals, six month goals mm-hmm.

[00:37:45] Francesca Hogi: And five year goals. Hmm. So five years is more about the vision, right? Like, what do I want my life to look like in five years, my career, my relationship. And it's, you don't have to have all the answers, right? But there are [00:38:00] things that we do know. It's like you might know in your career, for instance, while I know that in five years I want to be working for myself, and this, this, this was my answer, 12 years ago, I knew that I wanted to be working for myself.

[00:38:15] Francesca Hogi: I knew that I wanted to be helping people with something that was very personally important to them. So helping them to solve personal problems. I knew that I wanted to make enough money that I could have a good lifestyle and I could take care of myself, and I could take care of my loved ones and I could, you know, so there's starting with those puzzle pieces.

[00:38:34] Francesca Hogi: If it's a relationship, you might say, okay, I know in five years I wanna be in a really beautiful, connected partnership. And, you know, really think about the vision of what you wanna experience in that relationship. So then you can say, okay, that's the big vision. So, well, where do I wanna be in six months?

[00:38:51] Francesca Hogi: And then that makes you go more tangible because six months you can actually, you know, you're like, oh, I can, sure, I can, I can put my, I can like put my [00:39:00] hands on six months from now. Like, it'll be here very quickly. Yeah.

[00:39:03] Anne Muhlethaler: Metaphorically, it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost there, you know? Yeah.

[00:39:05] Francesca Hogi: It's, it's within reach.

[00:39:07] Francesca Hogi: Right. So if, you know, going back to the relationship example. If you haven't been on a date in 10 years and in five years you wanna be in a really great relationship, maybe in six months you don't expect to be married.

[00:39:19] Anne Muhlethaler: Maybe.

[00:39:20] Francesca Hogi: Right?

[00:39:21] Anne Muhlethaler: Right. You just had me there. I was so not there.

[00:39:26] Anne Muhlethaler: Sure. Thank you.

[00:39:29] Francesca Hogi: You know? Right. Totally. Like, here we are in November. If I said, okay, so by April you wanna be married, is that the goal? Sure. You know, it could happen. People certainly get married in shorter timeframes, but it's not really setting yourself up to win. Right. So understanding, okay, well in six months I wanna be dating someone. I wanna feel confident within myself, romantically. I wanna feel like I'm on the right path. I wanna, you know, maybe be dating one person who's a great partner. You're like, okay, great. So what, [00:40:00] how do we close the gap between today and six months from now, right?

[00:40:03] Francesca Hogi: Today, in three months from now? And so maybe it's like, okay, in the next three months, then maybe the assignment is you need to go on a lot of dates because you wanna kind of desensitize yourself and not have every date feel like so high stakes and be like, okay, yeah, I'm just a person who dates. So maybe the assignment in the next three months is for your inner belief for what.

[00:40:25] Francesca Hogi: You actually wanna have, you're really committing yourself to strengthening that and showing yourself the evidence that you need to believe that, oh yeah, I can handle this,

[00:40:35] Anne Muhlethaler: huh? Oh, I like the words you just said. Strengthening the evidence for yourself.

[00:40:41] Francesca Hogi: Yes.

[00:40:41] Anne Muhlethaler: So it's a way of building self-trust.

[00:40:44] Anne Muhlethaler: As much as self-trust will then breed self-confidence. Right. This idea is that if you're showing to yourself that you are able to show up in the way that you want to, then you become naturally more confident. [00:41:00] Yes, exactly. Um, but so when we think about the quality and the tone of the assignment, so you'd say dream fast forward five years, come back to six months, construct, like, build the evidence for yourself.

[00:41:17] Anne Muhlethaler: What else would you suggest to help people feel into, or, what's the word I'm using? Yeah. To become more tangibly connected to that assignment? Yes. Because I feel like the word itself, maybe I want you to tell me about this first. How did you come to this word?

[00:41:35] Anne Muhlethaler: Because it's unusual. It's very specific and I like it very much. Thank you.

[00:41:43] Francesca Hogi: How did I come to this word? Yeah. Oh, that's, I don't even know if I remember. Because I've been saying it for so long. I think I do know. So, Uhhuh, as I mentioned, I started my career as a matchmaker and, and [00:42:00] when you're a matchmaker, matchmaking tends to attract, well, understandably, a lot of people who they're like, oh, this is the silver bullet that I need, right?

[00:42:10] Francesca Hogi: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I I'm hopeless on my own. But now that I am paying someone, now that I'm paying you as a professional, I get to have whatever I want. A lot of people think that they're outsourcing the work to you of actually making connection rather than understanding like, oh, we're helping to facilitate, but still you can only have the relationship and the depth of relationship that you have the capacity to have internally. No one can outside be like, here's the perfect person, and now, now ta you know, now you feel totally worthy of receiving this love. Now you have the confidence to be vulnerable and to let yourself be seen and to, you know, all of that.

[00:42:52] Anne Muhlethaler: So

[00:42:52] Francesca Hogi: I realized as a matchmaker, and the reason that I stopped matchmaking after a couple years was that people were [00:43:00] not understanding that they had, not, not, not every client, sorry, if any of my former matchmaking clients are listening to this, not everyone, but many people had this attitude of well, like, I don't have to do anything anymore.

[00:43:14] Francesca Hogi: So I think I, I thought of this notion of an assignment as look, there's what I'm doing as a matchmaker. There's what the universe is doing in terms of the serendipity that's going to bring you together with the right person, no matter how that happens. But then there's what you are doing, right?

[00:43:32] Francesca Hogi: Which is about you doing the inner work to make sure that when somebody shows up who is a great partner for you, you can actually recognize them as such and you can actually receive that, right? And so I think if, even if I did maybe didn't start using the term assignment, it became very clear to me that there was a piece of, of this journey that was really up to the individual person to be like, [00:44:00] no, no, you do your part.

[00:44:01] Francesca Hogi: I'll do my part. The universe is always doing its part. And yeah, that's how it came to be. But I, I think also, you know, everything is connecting and coming full circle again, but, you know.

[00:44:12] Francesca Hogi: Yes, yes, yes. Like I was saying,

[00:44:13] Francesca Hogi: You know about how I really believe if you have this heart-centered desire, there's a, there is a, a, a way for you to achieve it.

[00:44:19] Francesca Hogi: Mm-hmm. And, you know, I'm a, I'm a manifester. I'm somebody who, you know, talks about manifestation, thinks a lot about manifestation. And I really think that ultimately what we are all doing is that we are manifesting the version of ourselves that inevitably has what we want.

[00:44:38] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:40] Francesca Hogi: Right. And so the path to becoming that version of yourself, those are your assignments.

[00:44:47] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm. You know what I find interesting about this, and I love how you described it, is you're talking about manifestation. [00:45:00] I dabble in it some of the people who do a lot of it, I don't, I don't like some of them I like,

[00:45:10] Anne Muhlethaler: but basically you're pointing to the fact that there are a number of things that are yours to do in order for you to get to the thing that you want.

[00:45:19] Francesca Hogi: Yes.

[00:45:19] Anne Muhlethaler: And then some of it you can't do anything about.

[00:45:23] Francesca Hogi: Exactly. You can't do anything about, but you just have to do you,

[00:45:26] Anne Muhlethaler: you just have to, yeah. Pull yourself, focus, do your part to get to where you want to be.

[00:45:34] Anne Muhlethaler: That speaks to me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's also something studious about it. Sorry, I, so I'm a coach who gives assignments to my,

[00:45:45] Francesca Hogi: to my clients. So do I, I call it heart work, not homework, but yes, Uhhuh,

[00:45:49] Anne Muhlethaler: I didn't give it a name for mine, but yes, I embrace yours.

[00:45:53] Anne Muhlethaler: This is something to, to, to add to this idea, oftentimes we will [00:46:00] pay a coach or a consultant or a designer or a thing that, we'll, we'll, we'll get the support from the right person, but there's more work for us to be done, right. To get to the place we want to be. And I see that very often, even myself as a client.

[00:46:17] Anne Muhlethaler: That's where we slip. That's where we're like, oh, this feels really hard. How do you support clients in making sure that they don't lose? Because I think there must be a tension, right? In order to keep the assignment or the the goal into focus.

[00:46:35] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. '

[00:46:36] Anne Muhlethaler: cause we are talking about your meandering journey, so I'm thinking it's the same, right.

[00:46:40] Anne Muhlethaler: In order to go to where you want, you need to keep that intention, right? Make sure that you still have that rapport, that connection to it. How do you help people keep at that? Because I think this is something every single person who is listening could benefit from. Mm-hmm.

[00:46:59] Francesca Hogi: [00:47:00] Mm-hmm. Well, you're so right. It has to be very intentional.

[00:47:03] Francesca Hogi: And this is where practices come in. In my personal life and also what I assign to my clients, one of the big things is journaling. Because it does help to keep you focused on what you do want. So things like that, I agree with you.

[00:47:20] Francesca Hogi: I certainly do not resonate with everybody who talks about manifestation. because I think a lot of it just is way too surface and it gets into like, oh, just say an affirmation. And it's like, but are you connected to that affirmation?

[00:47:32] Francesca Hogi: Do you, are you saying it? But in your mind you're just going bullshit. What's the connection to it? But we do have to do things to keep what we want top of mind.

[00:47:42] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:47:44] Francesca Hogi: And having some type of daily practice where you are carving out, even if it's five minutes to, sit in silence and visualization, meditation , journaling probably more than five minutes, but still [00:48:00] what are you willing to do to keep that, to keep that focus Yeah.

[00:48:03] Francesca Hogi: Is really important, accountability, you know, I, especially for some of my clients who do have more difficulty staying accountable. Mm-hmm. I, I, I, ask them to enlist people in their lives. Like, I was like, okay, this is a great opportunity for you to practice vulnerability as well as accountability.

[00:48:20] Francesca Hogi: Because who can you reach out to and say, Hey, you know what I'm at a place in my life where I'm really prioritizing relationships and dating. Yeah. And that's kind of scary. And that feels kind of hard. And I'm working with a coach and maybe, I could you support me in this, right? Or I'm letting you know, because I want the people in my life who, who I care about to know that I'm embarking on this journey.

[00:48:44] Francesca Hogi: And people get excited when you're vulnerable with them in that way. And then they're like, oh my God, how can I support? How can I help? So it is an individual thing yeah. But those are some practices. But then underneath all of that, we have to get to a place where we [00:49:00] believe that we deserve to have what we want and.

[00:49:06] Francesca Hogi: Everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I deserve it. No, no, no. We have to be humble and we have to be curious and we have to be very honest with ourselves about what are the things that I'm doing that might be actually working against what I want? So it's not just about what do I add on, what do I do differently?

[00:49:26] Francesca Hogi: It's about what do I stop doing? What's, what am I doing right now that might actually be holding me back? So maybe that that's the assignment is like, oh, let me just do an audit. What am I spending my time doing? What am I giving my energy and my focus to? How much time am I spending doom scrolling on social media?

[00:49:45] Francesca Hogi: And am I willing to like really, like literally. 'cause that's a big, that's a big part of what's sucking a lot of people's energy.

[00:49:52] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:54] Francesca Hogi: Is that, is the distraction of these devices. And all these platforms that are [00:50:00] engineered to suck all of our attention and our energy. And there are a lot of people who feel like they don't have any time, but if you actually looked at your usage time on, you know, different platforms, it'd be like, I spend how many hours a day on fill in the blank.

[00:50:17] Francesca Hogi: So you really have to be committed to yourself and say , yeah, I actually, even though it's hard, even though I don't know every step, I actually believe that I'm, I deserve to ha, achieve this goal. And even if there's a part of me that maybe doesn't fully believe it, I'm ready to believe it.

[00:50:33] Francesca Hogi: Right? So be, and, and this is why working with a coach, as is so good because you have a, you have a thought partner to help you see, some of these ways in which, there is an opportunity for more, for more to come in for your life. And sometimes it's doing things new and sometimes it's actually just stopping doing things that you're already doing.

[00:50:56] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. Removing the obstacles on the way.

[00:50:58] Francesca Hogi: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:59] Anne Muhlethaler: [00:51:00] Yeah. That's such a great point. Now, first of all, I should say, when you talk about that, you are making me want to hire you as a coach, so thanks. I'm just thinking. Alright, sold. There's a, there's a part of me that wants to come back to something you touched on earlier though, 'cause it feels still like it's pulsating in my, in the back of my mind.

[00:51:28] Anne Muhlethaler: You mentioned how this connection to our assignment is so important for right now. Should we talk about this for a couple of minutes? Yeah. Yeah. Why do you feel like this. Need for focus on what is our assignment is so important in this time?

[00:51:46] Francesca Hogi: Because there is so much to overwhelm us. And I think there's a sense of powerlessness that most of us have. Which in some ways yeah, we are powerless in terms of we can't, [00:52:00] I don't actually have a magic wand, which as much as I would love one, it's probably a good thing. No one should have one. Sure. No one can actually be trusted with it. But Uhhuh, but, and you know, and tell me if you agree, and again, this is also a very American perspective.

[00:52:18] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm.

[00:52:19] Francesca Hogi: Everyone is stressed out.

[00:52:22] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm.

[00:52:22] Francesca Hogi: Everyone is overwhelmed. Everyone is like, what is happening to this country? What is happening to this world? Is AI gonna take over everything? Like, you know, there's so much anxiety that we have. Yeah. Understandably. And I just think that if we take a step back and we look objectively at the situation, those of us who care about the world being a more fair, a more just place where everyone gets to thrive and everyone gets their needs [00:53:00] met and everyone has the privilege of thinking about, okay, well what do I really want?

[00:53:05] Francesca Hogi: Right? Sure. And then actually find, if we believe that, which I know that you do, and I imagine that your listeners do because they listen to you. Then we gotta do it, like we gotta do it and we gotta do it now and like no one is coming to save us. Like we have to save ourselves. And we have to step up as leaders to help those who can't do, 'cause everybody has a thing that they can do and a thing that they can't do, right?

[00:53:33] Francesca Hogi: Sure. Just like, that's why we seek support from some people. 'cause like, you're better at this than I do. You have more answers on this subject than I do. So I and so how all of us, whatever that is, I don't care if you're an artist, if you're an accountant, if you are an operations person, it doesn't matter what it is that you do, whatever you do, if you are bringing your heart and your intention to it, it's powerful.

[00:53:59] Francesca Hogi: [00:54:00] It makes a difference and it matters. And this is a, it's not easy, but I really feel that we are being called to step it up. Okay, how can I do more? How can I have more impact? You know, how can I help more people? How can I get more clear in my messaging so people don't have to really wonder and ponder, but like, I should be like, okay, I get it.

[00:54:26] Francesca Hogi: That's something I can actionably and tangibly hold onto. I think that is our time. I think that we've been in training for a really long time. Yeah. We've been developing these tools. We've been, you've been swimming through that, you know, that deep body of water and I've been driving in this car going on all sorts of roads and we've, and we've had all these experiences and so how do we take all of that now and combine that with our intention for the world that we wanna see and do our part, you know?

[00:54:59] Francesca Hogi:  [00:55:00] That's, I just think that's what everyone, that's what I would love for people who care about the world to ask themselves right now. And it could be, okay, I need to start talking to my neighbors and actually invest in human connection, every day. It doesn't mean that you're like, now you're like, you know, having to go out and meet a hundred new people, but maybe I'll, maybe the assignment is I'm just gonna start with saying hi to my neighbors, or I've lived, you know, I've lived in this building, right?

[00:55:27] Francesca Hogi: I've lived in this house for two years and I don't even know the people who live across the street from me. Maybe that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. I'm gonna actually start where I am and start, you know, investing in this community that I'm a part of. Yeah. And treating it as a community.

[00:55:43] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[00:55:43] Francesca Hogi: For instance,

[00:55:46] Anne Muhlethaler: it's a, it's a beautiful. And heart opening suggestion. And as you're saying this, my suggestion for anyone who's like, but it's hard, I'm like, get a dog or borrow someone's dog. You will meet everyone in your neighborhood. He'll. [00:56:00] Or if you and Geneva borrow mine, he'll say hi to everybody. You will have plenty of connection. Let me tell you.

[00:56:07] Anne Muhlethaler: Absolutely. I definitely,

[00:56:08] Francesca Hogi: I, I, I probably petted three dogs yesterday alone. That's pretty common for me. I'm like, hi, can I pet your dog?

[00:56:18] Anne Muhlethaler: That's awesome. But I think you're, you're right. It's interesting 'cause I feel in this moment, in my own personal life, this same sense of calling as you're describing this sense of now is not a time to be small or to, I mean, not to be, but to play small now is a time to invest in being however generous one can be in connection, in support, in lending our voices or raising our voices so that we can support each other in whatever means through whatever means. We have, as you mentioned, everybody's got something different, [00:57:00] and I wanted to share, with our listeners that you and I have learned that we have one other thing in common, which perhaps also colors our perspective and, and has opened our hearts in a different way.

[00:57:14] Anne Muhlethaler: But our dads were born in the same year, right? Yes. 1925. Am I correct still?

[00:57:20] Francesca Hogi: 1926 for mine, yeah. 26. Oh,

[00:57:22] Anne Muhlethaler: oh yes. Wow. Yeah.

[00:57:25] Francesca Hogi: Oh, a baby. Yes.

[00:57:28] Anne Muhlethaler: But it, I feel like it's really transformed my perspective on many things, because effectively there was a generational gap, and so when people. When people talk about the Second World War, and it feels so far for them, for me, my dad was alive in the Second World War.

[00:57:47] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah, yeah. And he's, God knows, I mean, he saw much more than just that war. And I met people who survived the camps and his ex-wife, flew from Russia to France to Switzerland under the [00:58:00] cover, under the guise of her teenage best friend's identity to make it across the border from France and to Switzerland.

[00:58:06] Anne Muhlethaler: So, so I, I guess that perhaps more than other people, and that's not to say that not everybody's concerned to the state of the world, but yeah, I feel like, ooh, and I'm getting shivers when I say it. I feel like I, I sense the fact that we are on the precipice, right? That, that democracy is being pushed around, and is being taken for granted.

[00:58:28] Anne Muhlethaler: And, and I have this deep sense that. I need to do something about it, which feels ridiculous. Yeah. Because it's so big and in, in essence, daring to speak about it with you and talking about our assignment and saying, how can we focus in being our best selves, Right. In whatever way that makes sense to each of us is so incredibly important because it could be one of the ways that we make sure that we, we don't [00:59:00] have to live through total collapse and have to rebuild it all.

[00:59:04] Anne Muhlethaler: Although it may have to happen.

[00:59:06] Francesca Hogi: I do think that that unfortunately does have to happen and, well, I say unfortunately, but I feel it's so complicated. Yes. You know, my dad actually was in World War ii. Yeah. He served in the US Navy during World War II and it also, oh gosh, you know, America is so complicated, it's so hard to even describe because, I have that experience with my dad, then I have my mom who is black like I am. Mm-hmm. And you know, my mom was born in Alabama in 1943. It was segregated. She, when she left Alabama in 1962, she moved to New York.

[00:59:43] Francesca Hogi: It was still segregated. This is my mom. You know, like, this is so, so, I, and I think especially because so many people these days are so a historical, Yeah. That I'm like, I, I, I, I can't be because of just my actual family [01:00:00] experience and lived experience. And I'm like, you all wanna whitewash that, or you wanna pretend that was a hundred years ago, or Sure.

[01:00:07] Francesca Hogi: 500 years ago. No. And so I think, it does, it does give us an awareness, that a lot of people don't have because they don't have that history. And, or it just seems like ancient history to them where it doesn't seem like ancient history to us because we're like, oh, no, no, that was that was, my parents lived through that, you know?

[01:00:29] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[01:00:30] Francesca Hogi: Yeah.

[01:00:30] Anne Muhlethaler: I love the word you use. So many people are a-historical, like they want to not invest any time. I wanna keep that word and sit with that word. Before we close this, this conversation, I want to say I love that we were able to touch on this as much as talk about what your assignment means for love, for your personal life, but also this, if not [01:01:00] know when and why now is so important.

[01:01:02] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. It's, it's interesting what you say about family history and how we can feel so disconnected. Someone I talked to a few months ago, fascinating guy based in London, we had a conversation that touched on what happens when all the content that we read is stuff that we can literally let go of because none of it has much sense of presence and time.

[01:01:26] Anne Muhlethaler: It doesn't have necessarily that much depth. And so we're reading and consuming so much information and yet we're not sharing some of the things that matter, and I feel like there's room to make space for more, personal stories and community stories and all of that kind of things to, to happen.

[01:01:47] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. I agree.

[01:01:50] Anne Muhlethaler: Yay.

[01:01:50] Francesca Hogi: I agree.

[01:01:51] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd love to share? Something that we haven't covered or I [01:02:00] any thought that you didn't close?

[01:02:03] Francesca Hogi: I mean, I think the last thing I'll just say on this topic of, the world is to connect it back to where we started with possibilities, you know?

[01:02:14] Francesca Hogi: Yes. Because the, and this is something that I have to remind myself as much at this point. I think I have very good emotional boundaries with the chaos of America.

[01:02:25] Anne Muhlethaler: You

[01:02:25] Francesca Hogi: know, we'll see. But I feel like I, but there was, but for a while there it was. Sure. It was really, I was like, okay, I gotta do some work.

[01:02:34] Francesca Hogi: 'cause I can't feel like this all the time. I really like, I'm like, I can, I can't feel like this all the time. Because I know that the, the cost to myself and to my mission, if I am in a place of nothing, everything is terrible and nothing matters. We need to move past that, but

[01:02:49] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[01:02:50] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. And talking about not being ahistorical, we need to remember what happened, but we also don't need to glorify the past. Right? And we all know that all of these systems [01:03:00] that govern the world and govern our lives, we all know that those systems were broken or, or maybe not even broken, designed to benefit some people and not other people, right?

[01:03:11] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. So they're working actually as they were designed, perhaps some would say at least some of them. Anyway, the point is that. The upside of the collapse. And this is again, why we need to step it up because, all those things that we did want ch to change. What do we wanna change them into? What is the new world that we wanna imagine?

[01:03:35] Francesca Hogi: What do we want democracy to look like in a way that serves everyone? You know, what do we wanna do to make sure that there's just not a handful of really rich, greedy people who are taking, sucking up as many resources as they can and leaving the rest of the world with nothing. Right? Like what do we actually want?

[01:03:56] Francesca Hogi: And so starting, even though we don't know exactly how we're gonna get there, [01:04:00]

[01:04:00] Anne Muhlethaler: yeah,

[01:04:00] Francesca Hogi: it starts with a vision, right? The very simple, probably cliched example of this is Thomas Edison in the light bulb. And I know people are, I know other people are working on light bulbs, but the point is that he had to have a vision of somehow we can harness electricity and we can have a light bulb that you can turn it on and you can turn it off.

[01:04:21] Francesca Hogi: And there was a time when people were like, you need to be committed to a mental institution. And actually some of his friends did commit him to a mental institution because it sounded so insane. Right.

[01:04:35] Anne Muhlethaler: And it took him I did not know that. Thank you.

[01:04:37] Francesca Hogi: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it took him many years and many, many failed attempts before he was able to actually create the light bulb that he envisioned.

[01:04:48] Francesca Hogi: And that's everything in the world that's manifestation. Everything that we have in this physical world. Somebody had to think of it before it existed. Yeah. And that includes democracy, right? Yeah. That includes [01:05:00] government, that includes systems, that includes everything. We need to start getting more focused on the vision and then working backwards to like, okay, how do we actually enact that vision?

[01:05:11] Francesca Hogi: But we need to start thinking a lot bigger and we need to not waste time because there's a lot of people who are suffering and yeah, yeah, let's do what we can.

[01:05:24] Anne Muhlethaler: Thank you so much for sharing that. That's so powerful. That's a powerful place to, for us to land this conversation. Thank you so much for your time, Francesca, for this beautiful conversation.

[01:05:36] Anne Muhlethaler: Thank you. I'm so happy to have had some more time with you. I'm excited about your TEDx talk next week, your TED Talk next week. I'd love to ask you, before we close this, is there any part of the conversation that surprised you or is there one piece that you feel like our listeners should particularly pay attention to and, and perhaps take away into their lives?[01:06:00]

[01:06:00] Francesca Hogi: Well, I really loved your question about what is the metaphor for your life and that journey. So I think everyone should think about that. they probably already are, but if you're not, if you haven't already thought about that, I would definitely think about that. And I would just think about whatever part of your life where you feel, you want to see the most change.

[01:06:21] Francesca Hogi: Mm-hmm. Just to take some time to envision, okay, what's the best that could happen? What's the best case scenario, right. How do I want to feel? And really just start connecting to that vision. And, you know, you can borrow my magic wand.

[01:06:40] Anne Muhlethaler: Fantastic. I love it.

[01:06:44] Francesca Hogi: And just start even I think, look, we're not, we're just not gonna be perfect here, right?

[01:06:48] Francesca Hogi: We're never gonna be perfect, but that's fine. Perfection is not required, thankfully. But how can we start to, whatever that looks like for you

[01:06:58] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm. Start

[01:06:59] Francesca Hogi: to connect more [01:07:00] to the vision of what it is that you want.

[01:07:02] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah.

[01:07:02] Francesca Hogi: To see in your life and in the world. That's it. I think that is really powerful.

[01:07:06] Francesca Hogi: And the last thing I will say, because if you're doubting that, that's powerful. Just imagine the opposite. What would happen if every single person on this planet who is like, who felt depressed or overwhelmed or upset about anything going in the world, just said, oh, well, it's just too much. I give up God.

[01:07:23] Francesca Hogi: And we all just laid down. That's a

[01:07:24] Anne Muhlethaler: powerful Yeah, it's a powerful example.

[01:07:27] Francesca Hogi: Yeah.

[01:07:29] Anne Muhlethaler: That's a bit scary,

[01:07:31] Francesca Hogi: right? So we can't, so we, that's why we're not doing that.

[01:07:36] Anne Muhlethaler: No, no, no. We can't do that. We can't do that thinking Netflix and chill. No, I mean, just a little bit.

[01:07:43] Francesca Hogi: Yeah. Have some Netflix and chill time, but also be like, okay, also what's, what's my assignment here?

[01:07:48] Francesca Hogi: You know?

[01:07:50] Anne Muhlethaler: Mm. Yeah. Thank you so much, Francesca. I hope that everyone has appreciated this conversation as much as I have. There's [01:08:00] much that I need to unpack for myself. I feel super inspired by everything that we touched on and your journey, and I love your way of thinking about how we can have an impact for ourselves and for the world at large.

[01:08:13] Anne Muhlethaler: I will put all the links in the show notes for people to be able to find you. Can we watch you live next? By the time this airs, I think your talk will have already happened, but do you have any idea when we can watch it live after Ted Next?

[01:08:29] Francesca Hogi: I don't know, because Ted has their own, you know, time pace when they release their, they have their own time.

[01:08:37] Francesca Hogi: I don't know. I, I have a feeling it'll probably come out fairly soon. Within the next month or so, so hopefully, yeah.

[01:08:45] Anne Muhlethaler: Yeah, we'll see. Awesome. I'm so excited for you. Thank you. I will try to see if I can, register to, to watch it online. I'll see.

[01:08:55] Francesca Hogi: Me too. Thank you.

[01:08:57] Anne Muhlethaler: Francesca, thank you again and have a [01:09:00] beautiful rest of the day and I'm looking forward to catching up again very soon.

[01:09:04] Francesca Hogi: Yes. Thank you Anne. So good. Take care. Bye.

[01:09:08]